Oscar Season 2025-2026; Sundance Film Festival Re-Cap; New Voices, Splashy Premieres, Skittish Distributors and Titles That Can Go the Distance

On this episode of ACADEMY ANONYMOUS:

• An uncertain future for Utah and the Sundance Film Festival
• Sundance 2025 again key to unlocking the early favorites for Best Documentary Oscar
• A24 teams with Pastel again on Eva Victor’s “Sorry, Baby” - screenwriting winner, early critics darling and standout debut among US Dramatic Competition
• Race for Best International Feature starts with selection of co-production titles among World Dramatic Competition - Canada, Argentina, North Macedonia, Turkey, India, UK, Poland, France
• Underdog “Omaha” and John Magaro pull on the heartstrings just right, dismiss the title at your own peril!!
• Crowd-pleasing debuts for “The Ballad of Wallis Island” and “The Wedding Banquet” look to signal sleeper hits for Focus Features and Bleecker Street in theaters this spring  
• Josh O’ Connor makes first (but NOT last) festival stop this year with “Rebuilding” - in a year where he’s primed to finally break into major Oscar acting race
• Will the Academy Awards ever wake up to the artistic achievement of “Peter Hujar’s Day” director Ira Sachs? 
• The BIG 3 titles from Sundance 2025!
• “If I Had Legs I’d Kick You” kickstarts a big year for Safdie-esque cinema, BUT can this brand of filmmaking crossover with the Academy Awards in a big way?
• Can “If I Had Legs I’d Kick You” succeed where “Hereditary” failed and finally bring Rose Byrne to the Oscars for Best Actress? 
• Will “If I Had Legs I’d Kick You” get lost among A24’s slate of films?
• Queer-Golden Age Hollywood musical hybrid “Kiss of the Spider Woman” has all the cards it needs for a long, successful Oscar run
• The prestigious legacy of “Kiss of the Spider Woman” - Bill Condon, William Hurt, Raul Julia, Sonia Braga, Hector Babenco, Kander & Ebb, Chita Rivera, Terrence McNally
• Colleen Atwood, Oscar-winning Sound Designers and veteran Production Designer and DP in the Oscar hunt for sumptuous visuals on display in “Kiss of the Spider Woman”
• Jennifer Lopez channels old-Hollywood glamour and dances her way to another Oscar bid for Best Supporting Actress in “Kiss of the Spider Woman”
• Tonatiuh poised for breakout year as Molina, Diego Luna's heartfelt turn and reputable career to figure in Best Supporting Actor
• Netflix bets on “Train Dreams,” but after last year’s “Sing Sing” can Bentley and Kwedar score consecutive Best Adapted Screenplay nods with prized source material?
• “Train Dreams” to factor into Best Cinematography, but is it going to miss the big-screen treatment?
• Joel Edgerton wins strong mentions for Best Actor but will he be the victim of the film’s use of voice-over?
• Is Netflix the right fit for “Train Dreams” Best Picture hopes?
• Where have all the distributors gone?! Big-name independents scaring themselves out of sure-fire Oscar contention and potential mass audience appeal

Chapters

• 5:40 Sundance Documentaries To Look Out For
• 35:35 It Was Not A Bad Year For Sundance Titles!!
• 44:09 Is Eva Victor/SORRY, BABY the new Greta Gerwig/LADYBIRD?
• 56:12 Twinless; Atropia; Plainclothes; and more
• 1:07:47 DJ Ahmet; Cactus Pears; The Things You Kill; and more
• 1:13:07 Midnight Films; Neon's TOGETHER; NEXT!
• 1:18:07 Why is no one talking about OMAHA??
• 1:22:07 Premiere Films: Lurker; Peter Hujar's Day; Rebuilding; The Wedding Banquet; and more
• 1:35:01 Oscar Contender: Rose Byrne and IF I HAD LEGS I'D KICK YOU
• 1:44:04 Oscar Contender: J.Lo and KISS OF THE SPIDER WOMAN
• 2:03:15 Oscar Contender: Joel Edgerton and TRAIN DREAMS

Transcript

Jules: 0:13

hey, welcome back to academy, anonymous, I'm jules and I'm joseph and welcome to our first episode of season two, covering everything from the oscar race to interesting news happening in the industry, to films and film culture. Um, and we just finished waving goodbye to the 2024 2025 oscar season, um, and we're beginning this new chapter right, and we're very excited because last we actually started this podcast a few months ago yeah, so we were starting the 2024 2025 season around december, which was really the end really close to the close to the end that first phase exactly of the nominations being revealed by the academy, and so you know, we started pretty sort of very much in media rest and we got to see it through, but this is actually our first opportunity to tackle the race from the very beginning.

Jules: 1:13

So that's pretty exciting and we're glad that you're here with us.

Joseph: 1:17

Right. So Oscar season 2025 to 2026, blank page, starting completely new, fresh. Everything from last year is gone, is by the wayside yeah we'll see. Maybe there's going to be a factor and some carryover could be really interesting.

Joseph: 1:34

Right, but a whole brand new board to start with and everyone starts at zero right right, and I couldn't think of a better way than to launch our second season, than to discuss what is probably one of the biggest events you know for pieces on the board officially and what we think some of their strengths and weaknesses are some of the things that caught our eye.

Jules: 2:10

I think that's the best place to start yeah, and some of the things we might start talking about now we might be talking about all as well throughout the year, exactly as uh, things start to heat up, exactly um, and you know what? The Sundance is always a very interesting thing because it's uh, you know, such a world famous festival, especially for independent film. But it always happens typically right smack in the middle of all this Oscar chaos. The nominations have come out, the uh campaigning for the phase two of the Oscar winners is beginning is underfoot, so it's sort of happening right at a moment when everyone is sort of really focused on what's going to happen with the oscars yeah and so it always feels like so early to start talking about films for the following year, when the oscar ceremony hasn't even wrapped up yet yeah

Jules: 2:59

um, so in that way the sentence is kind of strange, the timing right, but it's also exciting because you get your first glimpse of films that are going to be talked about throughout the year, hopefully, yeah, and in that way it's a very exciting festival and we had the opportunity to attend this year. We saw a large number of films, both in person and virtual, and, of course, with the that uh Sundance may be moving soon. You know it's one of the final opportunities you have to see uh the Sundance lineup and screenings in the Utah location, which is so synonymous with uh Sundance, it's success, its legacy. So that's always nice. And yeah, what do you think?

Joseph: 3:47

I completely agree. Very fortunate to be able to head out over there and meet a lot of really interesting people attending screenings, working the festival. I also think you know there's no better time to be talking about Sundance, because right now I think Deadline was reporting that Utah's governor is having an issue with the idea that they want to ban the pride flag from sort of government institutions and that is going to directly affect whether Sundance participates in that state. I think it's an absolutely excuse me, I think it's an absolute no-brainer for Utah state.

Joseph: 4:22

Excuse me, I think it's an absolute no-brainer for Utah State, Utah government officials, the people of Utah. It is dumb to force Sundance out of Utah, so synonymous. The experience with Utah. In the background, such appreciation that festival goers have for Utah and the infrastructure they have there, is just amazing. To sort of split hairs on an issue that is that stupid is just really sad and disappointing. And there's snow and mountains in other areas. Colorado is right there. You know what I mean, so don't mess this up for a stupid reason.

Jules: 4:58

Yeah, and that's part and parcel with the climate that we're all undergoing right now, which just seems to be filled with disappointing, just disappointment after disappointment, news and news and news. So it's not surprising, but it's very disappointing to hear, right, and so we'll see what happens there. Yeah.

Jules: 5:19

I certainly think they're going to end up moving to a different location, which again is going to be bittersweet, because, again, the Utah mountains has been always so synonymous with the experience of Sundance as a whole. Yeah, but it's tough to go where you're not welcome. Absolutely, a hundred percent, I agree. We're not welcome. Don't worry, there are plenty of other places They'll be happy to have us, exactly.

Joseph: 5:39

All right. Well, let's start digging into these lineups, and I think the best way to proceed is let's talk about documentaries first and then we'll work our way into the narrative films. And I think the reason for that is because, you know, looking through Sundance history, one of the things that sticks out foremost in my mind is that this is the place where you want to premiere a documentary Right mind is that this is the place where you want to premiere a documentary right. This is an excellent place for the future of documentary filmmakers. They have a lot of support from the institution, sundance Institute, but beyond that, members are going to be watching these films, the films that were selected, the films that won some type of award, the films that were able to get a lot of attention. And I think this is the best place to start, because Sundance is so documentary rich, yeah.

Jules: 6:28

And when we mentioned members, again we're talking about, you know big picture, you know eventually the Oscar Academy members.

Joseph: 6:37

Right, exactly. So you know, from what I've seen historically, we'll be seeing maybe, at least I want to say, two to three eventual Oscar nominees for Best Documentary from within this lineup of US documentary, world documentary and possibly premieres, and that's just nominees. When we talk about the shortlist that I think I believe includes up to 15 films, we'll be seeing many more shortlisted. The films here are incredibly popular, they have a lot of success down the line and they're just wonderful every year and this year was no exception and there's a lot of titles that are already working their way up that sort of screening list that members are going to start, you know, developing over a year's worth of of time of movies premiering and then reading stories on them and then seeing it win awards and premiere in certain festivals. So there are a lot of standout documentaries already.

Jules: 7:31

Right, and so, as you were saying, joseph, sundance is such an important platform for documentaries, you can expect many of these documentaries to be films that people and critics and voters discuss and contemplate throughout the rest of the year.

Jules: 7:50

Um, looking at the us uh documentary competition, um, there are a few titles here that I think uh really stood out and people were very much talking about, very much had a lot of buzz, and so let's see uh, a crowd favorite was selena y los dinos, yep, uh, which I believe netflix is in the hunt to try to pick up, um, I believe, if I'm not incorrect, obviously, a documentary about the great selena quintanilla, and never before seen footage of her and her family and her band, los dinos, and so, um, that's going to be a crowd pleaser. And there's a film that many people talked about and I believe it's actually premiering. I mean, it's it's also having a screening at south by southwest currently, um, and it's uh, the perfect neighbor, oh yeah, right, which we got a chance to see, which is a very compelling documentary, a very powerful documentary, very disturbing documentary, about a dispute in an impoverished Florida neighborhood that escalates into something really ugly and catastrophic and that made quite a few waves.

Joseph: 9:04

Yeah, absolutely, and catastrophic, um, and that made quite a few waves. Yeah, absolutely, I think that was certainly one of the most talked about titles on the festival roster narrative or documentary. A lot of people were able to watch it, you know, without you know. Going too deep into spoilers, I will say that the way the film is composed it reminded me a lot of last year's nominee composed it reminded me a lot of last year's nominee for documentary short film incident.

Jules: 9:28

Yeah, because the film yeah, the film is using a lot of found I mean a lot of uh media that already exists, you know exactly right, it's using it's sort of reappropriating this footage that is already in existence so this isn't a sort of documentary that's going to give you the talking heads or recreations.

Joseph: 9:48

It's really using a lot of factual material and putting you sort of right in the middle of the situation. Yeah, the editing is quite remarkable. A lot of people have talked about it, but I definitely think this is going to be one of the standout documentaries from the entire year yeah I completely expected to be shortlisted and to be in the hunt for the top five spots and I would call it a favorite.

Joseph: 10:10

Right now, I will say this was one of the first films. One of the really a pattern that happened in the festival, unfortunately, is that this is one of the only films to get picked up right away. Yeah, right, and so netflix picked this up and that, that, I'm gonna say, is my worry, because I think netflix, actually their documentaries, they don't.

Joseph: 10:30

They do well, absolutely very well here, even though something like daughters yeah left off here right, I did, but they do really well here, um, but there's something about watching this sort of but there's something about watching this sort of reappropriated footage, I think, in a theater with other people. That is quite striking and I'm afraid that because of the nature of the documentary, it might get sort of lost in the sort of Netflix content realm and it might not get the moment in film culture that it deserves and that it would have would it come out in a theater or that you know people were to see it in a group. You know there's something about putting the netflix n on it that I'm afraid might I'm afraid might whittle down its power. I don't know if that's just a presumption of mine. Like you said, netflix does really well in this category, but the idea that this could have gone to maybe a more high profile theatrical distribution route I think would have been even better.

Jules: 11:31

Right, right, no, I agree with you. Maybe I'm a little bit less skeptical because of you know how, again, how well Netflix tends to do in that category. You're right. Daughters, which also premiered at Sundance, was very surprisingly left off the list last year. Um, I definitely see the parallel between this film and the short film incident which got nominated last year. As you were saying, the the way the film is uh, structured, you know, almost entirely out of body cam footage and, um, uh, surveillance footage. Um, there was a lot of parallels with that short film and it it creates quite a striking experience, really tense.

Jules: 12:10

Yeah very tense.

Joseph: 12:12

And when it finally hits, it's absolutely you know like devastating yeah yeah, 100%.

Jules: 12:19

Another film that did really well at Sundance here in this category was Seeds, which is exploring, you know, black generational farmers in the South. There was a lot of praise for that documentary. Unfortunately we did not get a chance to see it, but I do wholly expect that film to appear on the shortlist for documentary and to be a very strong contender, as you were saying, to make the final five.

Joseph: 12:44

Absolutely. I believe this is britney shine feature documentary debut. Don't hold me to that, but I believe it is. It shot in sort of striking black and white talking about these black farmers in the united states. It was a very popular film. A lot of great mentions for it. I've I've been told that it's. It looks absolutely beautiful.

Joseph: 13:06

Yeah, black and white Right, and I would totally expect this to be, as you said, shortlisted, possibly in the top five at the end. This was a film that was supported by the Sundance Institute and you know we haven't said anything about this yet, but it was the winner of the grand jury prize and that is an excellent position to be in.

Joseph: 13:27

I think the door is still open as to who is going to pick this up and I think multiple people would want to pick it up, so that may give it a little bit of an edge, possibly depending on who commits to it, but I think whoever commits to it, the film, I think, is ready to be one of the standout documentaries of the year.

Jules: 13:46

Right and 100. It, the film I think is ready to be one of the standout documentaries of the year. Right and 100, I agree, and along the lines of selena los dinos, uh, documentaries that maybe were a little bit more populist and crowd pleasers. Yeah, we have the marley matlin documentary not alone anymore. I know that quite a few people uh liked that documentary and and Andre is an Idiot was actually a winner. It was, I think, the audience award winner for this section, and so those two I expect to be films that get picked up eventually.

Joseph: 14:16

Actually, andre is an Idiot is already being backed, I believe by A24.

Jules: 14:20

Oh, okay, well, that makes sense.

Joseph: 14:21

Even for that reason alone, I would say it makes it all the much more likely that it is going to land in those 15 and I would watch it be one of the most one. As you said, one of the biggest crowd pleasers yeah, the documentary field this year, picking up a bunch of regional critic mentions all the way to possibly an oscar nomination. This isn't necessarily a category where 824 does yeah extremely well, but you know they're going to get.

Joseph: 14:47

They're going to get a foothold on this race eventually yeah and this has a lot of fans yeah a lot of fans and it's a kind of a unique topic, a very unique topic, kind of an interesting topic, I think. Um, so I would not sleep on this yeah this is another one where I feel very confident this is going to be a top 15 lister yeah, and centered around andre.

Jules: 15:07

Um, he's uh, has a a diagnosis. It's a more, it's a terminal terminal, and so he's capturing, uh, these, uh last moments of life, and his experiences and his experience of his relationships, and so I think it's that kind of sweet spot where it's sentimental enough, where people are really responding audiences, but it's also, I think, centered around this really charming and sort of irresistible character at its center.

Joseph: 15:42

This is absolutely going to be one of those films that I believe it's the ida awards that has a an award for most memorable character in a documentary. I believe it's the international documentary association that does list that award. Andre is going to be there for sure andre will be there right so it's going to be a very competitive film. I wonder if it could find an audience in theaters. I think it just might. Like I said, I think there was a lot of fans for it. I think that's one reason that.

Jules: 16:09

A24 picked it up and a documentary that was in this section that you and I got to see and we loved was Predators, which is this deep dive into how to catch a predator, the series and the sort of you know layered experience that is watching that show and watching these perpetrators. You know get humiliated, right um and a lot of, uh, very interesting psychological perspectives on you know uh that trauma, not just the trauma of you know uh the show uh was capturing, but also the trauma of watching that show and watching these predators being captured on live time right um.

Jules: 16:55

It's just an absolutely fascinating documentary. I absolutely loved it yeah I loved this movie and I think it was my favorite film that I saw at Sundance. I thought it was spectacular, yeah, uh, really thought provoking, just absolutely fascinating. So up my alley so up your alley it was so it was such a a wonderful film. Um, I don't know that this kind of film kind of really ends up permeating the documentary category that much, um, but I would love to see it. Yeah kind of really ends up permeating the documentary category that much.

Joseph: 17:29

But I would love to see it kind of, you know, be able to find its way, its foot in there. I'm with you. I think this was the best film that I saw at Sundance. It's just so complexly rendered and rendered with so much authenticity, and I was just really surprised by how much command the director, david Alls, had on the film. Really really interesting, thought-provoking stuff. I don't think that this film is going to get as large an audience, unfortunately.

Joseph: 17:58

I think it probably won't be listed in that 15. It didn't win any prizes, unfortunately, from Sundance, that 15. It didn't win any prizes, unfortunately, from Sundance. It hasn't been picked up yet, but I we were talking about it. This feels like the kind of thing that would feel right at home with Strand releasing or Kino Lorber. They're gonna find success with this film. I think that's the home for this kind of film. Again, they're not necessarily outlets that figure largely every single year in the documentary race. That's why, as excellent as it is, that's why I hesitate, like you to sort of name it a frontrunner here Right.

Joseph: 18:34

So still a wonderful film. Yes and I mean Speak, I think also heard really good things about right and I think it has sort of this youthful aspect to it and this youthful perspective to it.

Joseph: 18:47

I think that's going to be unique to the film. It has not been picked up yet, but I would not be surprised to see netflix include this in its arsenal. Right, I could see it becoming very popular on netflix streaming and possibly figuring into one of those 15 spots as well right, and are there any other documentaries that you I think we mentioned, the ones that kind of pulled the most attention?

Jules: 19:10

I don't know if there are other documentaries you want to mention specifically from this section.

Joseph: 19:13

I think from this section. That's it. I would remind listeners that you're dealing with the grand jury prize winner being Seeds and the special jury prize winner being the directing for the perfect neighbor, which is will be on netflix, and the audience award went to andre's an idiot, which will be released by a24 later this year, I believe correct, and so we uh continue on our um exploration of the documentaries in this festival.

Jules: 19:43

let's go to the World Cinema Documentary Competition and see what titles we were seeing or feeling the most buzz from the festival. Off the top of my head, prime Minister, about the New Zealand Prime Minister, jacinda Ardern, was something that quite a few people I thought were talking about. I think that was a documentary I thought were talking about. I think that, you know, was a documentary. I think it might have won the audience award.

Joseph: 20:09

I think it did win the audience award and so, like I, said.

Jules: 20:11

I think that's the kind of documentary that you know a wide group of people respond to.

Joseph: 20:17

Yeah, it might find an audience. Yeah, it might find an audience.

Jules: 20:20

I don't believe it has been picked up yet but if it is picked up, audience award winner could definitely find an audience. Um, I heard quite a few people talk about mr nobody against putin uh, which has a you know a big timeliness uh with uh concerning the us ukrainian relationship, which is going in a you know very troubling direction as the us russian relationship as well.

Joseph: 20:43

Absolutely, I think that this was another standout from the festival, a standout from the world section. I definitely think this title will be among the 15 and I would not be surprised to see it land among the five.

Jules: 20:57

I don't think interestingly enough, we were talking about it when we were predicting our final oscar predictions. You know, the last three years have had a documentary that is, you know, at least somewhat dealing with this conflict exactly you know, last year there was a surprise of porcelain war making it in which won the grand jury prize, which won the grand jury, yeah um. So you know that's quite interesting, and so you know this. This topic is something that this documentary branch is certainly Wants to highlight.

Joseph: 21:26

Absolutely, and I think this fits right in there, possibly even more pressing now than it's been before with this new administration. But the film is very unique. You sort of have this insider access by this teacher who's able to sort of document how Russia is presenting the invasion on Ukraine to young students, and I think even the director or he's accredited as a co-director. This teacher even stayed on the job to sort of gain access to this footage I've heard.

Joseph: 21:56

It's very fascinating. I cannot wait to watch it. I think that this will be picked up by someone, possibly like Magnolia, and it will have a lot of success. I think we will be hearing this title, mr nobody against putin, come up again a lot as the year starts winding down. I think this would be a great moment to segue, however, into another film that's on this section right, which is 2000 meters to, and andreerivka right, which is the follow-up of miss taslov chernov, who, uh, whose documentary 20 days in maripool won best documentary in 2023.

Jules: 22:35

Um, and again, I felt this film had a very good reception and I do expect this film again to be in that, you know, shortlisted 15 right. Absolutely, I absolutely agree that it's.

Joseph: 22:42

It's going to be in that short list of 15. Right absolutely, I absolutely agree that it's going to be there. I think it's going to be there. It could very well get one of those spots. He is a previous winner. This documentary was met with a lot of acclaim as well. A lot of people thought it was quite compelling, sort of, I believe, sort of a journey to the front line yes. Right, and so it might be interesting to see if there's room for both right.

Joseph: 23:07

Right 2,000 meters and Mr Nobody versus Putin. And that's why I bring it up, that's why I said it was a good moment to mention it, because this conflict, again, it's not getting smaller, it's only getting bigger, it's only getting more troubling. And case in point there was enough room and spotlight, excuse me. There was enough room and sunlight, excuse me, there was enough room in Sundance to spotlight them both. And there was enough appreciation for both. I expect both to make the top 15 and at least one to crack the five.

Jules: 23:34

Right, the grand jury prize was cutting through rocks, uh, about the first elected councilwoman of an Iranian village, um, who's trying to break patriarchal uh traditions, um, by trying to teach teenage girls how to uh ride motorcycles, and that's in an effort to um prevent these young girls from entering into these child marriages, right, um, and so I think that that's a very compelling premise.

Joseph: 24:09

Very timely as well.

Jules: 24:10

Very timely and we unfortunately did not get a chance to see it, but we heard really good things about it and that just feels like a film that's also destined to make this final crop of documentaries for Oscar voters at the end of the year.

Joseph: 24:22

Right, I completely agree. This should be a a top 15 film, especially with that grand jury prize. You know it's important to mention that sundance, the oscar documentary branch, doesn't tend to favor one section over the other. They are going to shortlist films from both yeah almost in equal measure. So winning the grand jury prize year is great. The topic is really timely. I think that this would be a no brainer to include at the at the year's end.

Jules: 24:49

Right, and then as far as the films that in this category that I thought made the biggest impact I don't know if there's another film you wanted to mention in particular- I heard good things about how to build a library.

Joseph: 25:02

Again, I didn't get a chance to see it.

Jules: 25:04

And I know that there's another film. There's actually another film that has a similar topic. That's in the premiere section.

Joseph: 25:09

Yes, that I've heard even more about. But the Dating Game is kind of interesting because it does have an Oscar-winning producer who's part of the production team, and I believe she was part of the production team for the Edge of Democracy and Virunga and the White Helmets. She's won an Oscar, part of this team, so I don't think you can count it out. I believe it's sort of looking at these eligible bachelors from China who are signing on to this sort of dating service.

Joseph: 25:40

But of course I think it then starts talking about bigger issues in China, right? But of course I think it then starts talking about bigger issues in China, right? Possibly the role of masculinity in China, possibly the certain types of power dynamics within couples in China. I can imagine it's going to be very interesting.

Jules: 25:56

No one has picked it up yet, but I do think it's of note that it does have an Oscar winning producer on its team Right, a hundred percent, and I think those were the biggest titles to come out of this section, the ones that I think had the most buzz, right and so, uh, now we should move on to, uh, the premiere section right, they do list documentaries within the premier section, so there's a number of documentaries here right, uh you, you had Come See Me in the Good Light, which was an audience favorite and it was the winner of the Festival Favorite Award, and about two poets, one of them, andrea Gibson, who has a terminal cancer diagnosis and their partner Megan Fowley.

Jules: 26:40

That was a film that quite a few people responded to yes. And that director has made another popular film a couple years ago.

Joseph: 26:49

That's right. Good Night, oppie Ryan White, I believe, is his name.

Jules: 26:51

Which missed out on a documentary nomination but had a lot of mentions. Right it was close.

Joseph: 26:56

Yeah, and we saw that last year right with a bunch of the films that were shortlisted for the Oscar documentary. Remember Ibelin the remarkable life of eibelin, that filmmaker was coming off the painter and the thief, and so, uh, the filmmaker of union was coming off of crime and punishment. So I would not be surprised to see ryan white on the list again.

Speaker 3: 27:16

This and this time possibly make it into the final five I hear.

Joseph: 27:19

It's a very emotional experience and also very rewarding for the audience, for the subject matter.

Jules: 27:25

They found it very rewarding right um middletown I heard a little bit about from the filmmaker of boy state and girl state the team. Yeah, right, um, about a group of teenagers, I think, in new york, and they're doing a student film and then somehow they uncover a toxic waste conspiracy, right?

Joseph: 27:42

so that seems, uh, that caught a few people's attention yeah, it's had its fans, and I will say also that I think this is one of the final productions from participant films, so that's kind of interesting too, I thought right, um, move your body.

Jules: 27:57

The birth of house. The birth of house music. Um, I heard a few people talking about that. Uh, it's Never Over by Jeff. It's Never Over.

Joseph: 28:04

Jeff Buckley, obviously centered around Jeff Buckley, the late Jeff Buckley, right and you got Amy Berg on that one who's very popular, and you have Elegance Braden, I believe, who was just coming off his narrative debut, the Inspection, I believe, in 2022. He's the filmmaker behind Move your Body. Both of those film had their fans right, uh, deaf presidents now.

Jules: 28:29

Um, I believe in the uh deaf university, um, the world's only deaf university in the 1980s. Um, they're trying to find, I think, a new president right for for that university. Um, I think that also kind of was a documentary that qualified as a little bit of a crowd pleaser.

Joseph: 28:46

I think, yeah, I think it did have a lot of fans from the people who saw it in Sundance I spoke to a few people who really liked it and Davis Guggenheim also behind that documentary. You're going to recognize him from a film like An Inconvenient Truth, which was nominated I believe he won for that and something like Waiting for Superman. So he comes to Sundance all the time and he's been at the Oscars. Would not be surprised to see this shortlisted either among the 15. Right, and let's see. I mean well, you also had Folk Tales from Heidi Ewing who's coming off her narrative debut I believe I'll carry you with me.

Joseph: 29:23

Sort of a hybrid documentary narrative debut I believe I'll carry with me sort of a hybrid documentary narrative debut, which is a great movie.

Joseph: 29:27

Wonderful film from the pandemic 2020. But she's been recognized before for her work on Jesus Camp, I believe, and they were fans for this film. Again, a youthful perspective, right. That might be something that helps it stick out. And David France is back. That might be something that helps it stick out. And David France is back. David France directing Free Leonard Peltier, which, coming off of a year where we recognized you know sort of the incarceration system and something like I'm Ready Warden, got nominated for short documentary film. That may be a timely enough topic, right? So I would not be surprised to see David France show up with this documentary at the end of the year and speaking of, uh that topic, you know, uh, the prison system.

Jules: 30:10

you know there's another film in this category called the alabama solution from the filmmaker behind um, capturing the freedmen, which is an incredible film, um, the alabama solution, right, and quite a few people were talking about that film. It was very praised, um praised about a group of incarcerated men exposing a cover-up in an Alabama prison. I heard it's a tough watch, but I heard it's a very compelling piece, right, I fully expect that film as well to make an impact.

Joseph: 30:38

Yeah, it could make an impact. Questlove is back with his documentary on Sly. Stone, and I believe that's already on streaming. It had a very positive reception, very warm reception. Of course, Questlove coming from his Oscar-winning Summer of Soul, which premiered at Sundance as well. I think also Sally sort of sticks out in this section. Right, that's coming from National Geographic, which is sort of always a favorite here. It doesn't always make the five, but I think you can count on them to make the top 15.

Joseph: 31:03

right um, that's coming from national geographic, which is sort of always a favorite here yeah, doesn't always make the five, but I think you can count on them to make the top 15. And that's going to be on the astronaut sally ride and her relationship with tamil shaughnessy. Um, this had a lot of fans as well and actually I think this is screening now at south by southwest as well yeah so I think it's going to play a few festivals before finally coming out on Nat Geo.

Joseph: 31:26

But I think being in that Geo presentation it's going to make it very competitive as well.

Jules: 31:31

Right, I also heard a few people talking about the Stringer, which is sort of an investigation into one of the most, or possibly the most iconic photograph from the Vietnam War and sort of exposing a lot of unseen, unheard of layers to that photograph. That got a good reception from the festival. And, speaking of timely matters, the Librarians is a film. I think Sarah Jessica Parker is a producer on that film. Oh, really, yeah, I think so, and so that film tackling sort of the crisis that's happening around this country and libraries because of this administration and the right-wing politics sort of surrounding our country at this moment.

Joseph: 32:16

It's a very timely topic and I've definitely heard a lot of people talking about it and I definitely expect this film to make that shortlisted 15 15 as well I mean, it really is a very complete list of films here to sort of represent so many different topics in documentary filmmaking timely pieces, biographical pieces, interesting angles, interesting characters like andre. I think the issue here is going to be sort of whittling down all these documentaries with tremendous potential to land in the 15 and possibly the five. Whittling it down to just 15, I think, is the challenge. I will say that Sundance has been on a tear lately. I think you know something like last year. They had four documentaries. You know eventually go and be nominated for best documentary. That included sugar cane, porcelain war, black box diaries was on the world section, as was soundtrack to kudeta. So that's four eventual nominees.

Joseph: 33:15

They had even more films that were shortlisted and then, you know, in a year like 2022, they also had a, I think, four of the eventual nominees and that included fire of love, navalli, which was the eventual winner. All that breathes, a house made of splinters. And in 29, I think in 2019, they also had four. They had, I believe, american factory, the edge of democracy. Honey land was very popular there. Yeah, um in, I'm sorry, that was 2019. And in 2020 they had a summer of soul. They had flee, which got multiple nominations across various categories and they had writing with fire, I think most recently. Their lowest year is 2023 when they got two documentaries in in the final five. Again, more were shortlisted, but those were 20 Days in Maripool, which ended up winning again, it won the Audience Award.

Joseph: 34:09

I believe that year and the Eternal Memory which we had seen there as well and that won the Grand Jury Prize in the World section. So I do expect somewhere between at least two, possibly as many as four, nominees to come out of here, and I do. I will say that a film that wins the grand jury prize is in really really really strong position.

Joseph: 34:32

You look at a film. As I said, the Eternal Memory won this Writing with Fire, I believe, won this and so you have to really believe that a film like Cutting Through Rocks, which won the grand jury prize on the world section, is in a really strong position, as is the winner of the Grand Jury Prize on the US section, seeds. So I think we have a bunch of really competitive films here and I mean, I don't know if you agree with me, but my gut says Seeds, the Perfect Neighbor. Cutting Through Rocks. Yeah.

Joseph: 35:04

Those films are really at the top yeah, yeah. Then followed closely by something like Andre's an Idiot. I think Sally is going to have a very good shot.

Jules: 35:11

Yeah Right, I agree 100%. Those would be my top picks as well.

Joseph: 35:17

The Librarians also might be the Librarians.

Jules: 35:18

yes, One to watch out for.

Joseph: 35:20

Yeah, and of course she was recently nominated.

Jules: 35:23

Yes, yes, she was recently nominated for short film for Death by Numbers.

Joseph: 35:27

Yes, so she's coming fresh off a nomination she may actually repeat.

Jules: 35:31

Yeah, or it may affect also, or maybe possibly. And now we're going to segue into the narrative features that were included in Sundance this year.

Joseph: 35:41

Right, and just for a little bit of background, there's been a lot of criticism sort of levied at Sundance this year. With their selection of films. There are a lot of outlets that are dismissing this year as a less competitive year in terms of films that premiered and have, you know, very rich futures, not just in terms of how well they do with critics and how well they do with audiences, but certainly how well they do with Oscar voters. I want to say on the record that I'm completely against that opinion. I think it was a very strong lineup. I think you had a lot of really standout films and I think you have a handful of films here that absolutely have a very strong future for the Oscars, even though it's several months down the line. I think they're very strong projects with very strong prospects.

Joseph: 36:29

And I think also, some people are being too quick to dismiss the idea that Sundance isn't what it's used to be, which is again a saying that I absolutely hate, because Sundance is so necessary to this industry and certainly to the American side of this industry. It's a place where filmmakers go to sort of announce themselves, and that's a tradition that is not only necessary but that should be, I think, absolutely championed and encouraged, and, if anything, I think Sundance could do a better job of retaining some of those filmmakers to have them premiere more work here on another section. But I do think it was a strong lineup and the reality is that even if you look at last year, this is where A Real Pain sort of set its first flag right into what was eventually two nominations and a win for supporting actor. Eventually two nominations and a win for supporting actor and even something like a different man premiered here which won a golden globe for Sebastian Stan would have been nominated for Sebastian Stan, I firmly believe, had he not had the apprentice and certainly helped Sebastian Stan get nominated for the apprentice right and was nominated for best makeup at the Oscars, and so we're sort of in a little bit of a record here where there's at least going to be one Sundance movie that is going to cross over and get Above the line.

Joseph: 37:54

Above the line nominations yeah, usually more than one. Again, if you look at a real pain, above the line supporting actor original screenplay a different man in makeup. Before that you have something like past lives, right, which again picture. And original screenplay a different man in makeup.

Joseph: 38:05

Before that, you have something like past lives, right, which again picture yeah an original screenplay was very competitive for actress um, you have coda, of course, which was the eventual winner, right, right, um, in something like 2022, you had living right that finally got bill nye nye for best actor, nye for best screenplay, so there is at least going to be one. I don't know that we're in the days where a film like get out and call me by your name and manchester by the sea sort of premiere here and sort of grab the industry attention.

Joseph: 38:37

I think, unfortunately, there's just a lot of power being put right now in con and a lot of films are trying to wait till con to premiere yeah, we talked about that in our final episode of season one, which is that you know, after onora again, sean baker uh, you know, a staple of sunnets at some point right sort of starts premiering films in con. He doesn't really come back very often. I think we're at this moment in the industry and for oscar voters where there's just a lot of power in con, certainly for international voters I think it's too much power, but I certainly expect a couple of films, two or three films, to translate to oscar voters. And even if you look at something like last year right, where we had a real pain and a different man on the narrative side, there were a lot of titles that I thought were competitive. So after Sundance everyone had the Outrun pegged as a surefire actress nominee for Saoirse Ronan and possibly a competitive title for adapted screenplay.

Joseph: 39:43

And I think something that's important to talk about here, because people have been sort of levying this criticism for the quality of films, sort of excusing why a lot of them haven't been picked up yet. I think you look at the outrun and that's a film that should have been nominated for more oscars, would have been nominated for more Oscars. I just think that the right person didn't buy it and they didn't push it. Well, this is a studio or distributor that had other titles like I'm still here, and so I think that the reason why you're seeing a lot of these titles not picked up yet it's just because the market is so volatile right now. Not picked up yet. It's just because the market is so volatile right now and I've always been someone who champions that what needs to occur is we need to have more small distributors you know we're in a time where, because you have, the studio is basically reluctant to distribute anything with them with a brain, um risk

Joseph: 40:44

or off with a heart, anything that's risky or anything that's, dare I say, adult or mature or not, a piece of spectacle that you need to have more boutique distributors. You need to have more A24s, more Neons, more Janus films, and I think that's where the future is is places like Metrograph getting bigger, places like Magnolia getting bigger, and I think it's necessary and I think that's why the market is slow right now is because then what happens is you have Sony Classics pick up all these films. They don't necessarily know what to do with all of them, they don't market them well, and some of these titles, I think from last year, could have been more competitive. Something like my Old Ass, which got an Iron Fret Writers Guild Award, could have been more competitive in that category had it not been picked up by Amazon, which doesn't really know what it's doing in terms of campaigning for accolades and awards and an eventual Oscar nomination. I think the same could be said about something like Will and Harper might have had better prospects had it not been a.

Joseph: 41:51

Netflix film, and so I think that's what has to happen is more boutique studios have to pop up. The ones that already exist have to get stronger, and I think that it's bad to have Neon buy a bunch of films that they then do not know how to release, nor do they care to release really well, because they're just waiting for con. I would say the same thing about A24. I'd say the same thing about Sony Classics. It would be better for all these films and for the industry in general to have more boutique distributors who are going to give each of these films sort of the time and attention they require, because I honestly do believe so many of them are locked and loaded, ready to compete for an Oscar, ready to compete for voters' attentions and ready to capture an audience. I really do think that.

Joseph: 42:43

So I don't think that this is going to be, for example, a year like 2018, where you had essentially no Sundance titles, walk out with a nomination, but I think what happened there was that the titles that were eligible were too niche. I mean, you're talking about one of the most championed films that year yeah famously was hereditary right with tony collette.

Joseph: 43:05

You know almost you know, getting the lion's share of all the actress regional critics awards. But it's going to be such a difficult sell as a first film, even with a previous nominee like tony collette. Um, you talk about bo burnham? Who made a classic yeah with eighth grade yeah he wasn't able to get in 824, I think had a tough year that year. Um, you look at someone like harry mulligan for wildlife, who hadn't been nominated.

Joseph: 43:31

I think a second time yet yeah, yeah um, who would be nominated two years after that, I believe, and so I almost feel like it was too spread out and there was no film that was, I think, popular enough to get multiple nominations, because if you look at that, that's a trend here. If you look at past lives, it's two, a real pain, it's two living, it's two, and they're great when it comes to acting and screenplay. Sometimes some text will get in, as you saw, a different man, um, but I I definitely think that what happened in 2018 is not going to play out this year, because I think that there are films with enough potential in multiple categories.

Jules: 44:09

I think that's really well said and I completely agree with you on all those points. Very well said. I will say that, let's see, looking at the US dramatic competition section section, there are a few films that stand out here. Um, let's see the biggest one being uh sorry baby, which was, uh, I think, captured the uh most of the attention from this section and I would say from the captured among the films that captured the most attention of the festival period. Yeah, um, from eva victor. It's her directorial debut. She also wrote it. The film won the screenwriting award, which I believe is the same award that I believe. A real pain one, yep, same one, right, and we did get the chance to see this film. I did think it was among the stronger films I saw at the festival. I thought that had a lot of strengths. It's certainly a very particular, singular voice that we're hearing from for the first time, from Emma Victor. I think you can really feel that in the piece.

Jules: 45:12

A lot of people are already comparing her to someone like Greta Gerwig or Phobe right from yeah, from fleabag yeah um, you know she has the kind of voice that sort of strikes that middle ground between you know, humor and also some, you know, really sort of distinct melancholy, um, and the film as a whole, I think, has this undercurrent of melancholy that I find that I interesting, but it's also feels like a very low key film. You know, um, I don't know about you, uh, but you know it's the world, it's depicting the setting. You know it feels very low key, more so than I would say a film like, let's say, uh, greta Gerwig's directorial debut, uh, bird. The filmmaking style reminded me a lot of one of my favorite filmmakers, which is Dan Salat. In a way, you know, there's something kind of very bare about the piece, you know, very stripped back, sort of like micro budget. You know know, very sort of simple, straightforward micro budget, sort of um kind of storytelling, um and uh.

Jules: 46:24

I thought that was interesting. Again, I love dan sad's films and I see that there was a lot of promising things about this debut um, and I can see why people were responding so emphatically to it as well. It's a singular voice from Ava Victor and just broadly, she's also acting in the film and her character is undergoing a traumatic experience and the fallout of that traumatic experience, and I think it also has. It's a personal story for this filmmaker as well, and I think you can feel that in the piece too. Um, that's, that's one of its strengths. In my opinion.

Joseph: 47:04

No, I I completely agree. I echo everything you've said. I I do think that this is the kind of film where if you were to take away ava victor's name, or if ava victor's name was more known already within the industry, like greta gerwig, I think that this film would be locked and loaded. I think this is an easy pickup for anyone. I think it's an easy campaign not an easy campaign, but it should be a formidable campaign. It's, I think, a very poignant movie.

Joseph: 47:34

I definitely think she is going to possibly get the large share of you know any accolade that has to do with breakout filmmaker or first film I I worry sometimes about where we're at as an industry because I want her to have the opportunity to make more films.

Joseph: 47:53

I'm worried that she's going to be either co-opted into writing something for a studio which is impersonal and would be, I think a step back I think, for us as audience members who want to see more films, from her point of view and sometimes I worry that they're going to put her into a tv show, like they did with lena dunham, and I think that that, you know, sometimes isn't the best thing that could happen to a filmmaker a filmmaker who is really showing a distinct singular voice. I think girls was was wonderful, but I I do think that lena dunham belongs on the big screen right um, so I do worry about that, but I do think that the film has the legs to get nominated for original screenplay.

Joseph: 48:41

I would not be surprised if it turns into something bigger either. Um, like I said, if you were to take the exact same film and when you were to put greta gilwig starring in it, and this being greta gilwig's debut feature, I think the prospects would be much brighter. Only because greater gilwig is more known. Um, this is coming from pastel right, which gave us after sun right um, and they found success there, getting paul meskel nominated. Of course. They gave us moonlight. Um. A24 picked it up really quick and they have a relationship with pastel, so that's not surprising. Big beach is also in here and they've made films that have found audiences and have found some um love from oscar voters and and end of year accolades and things like that. So I don't think that's the problem. I think sort of her anonymity would be the most difficult hurdle, but if you watch the film, I think you're going to be touched by it. Um, and as the year sort of progresses and it becomes clear as as always happens, that you think you're gonna have quote-unquote better, stronger more appealing movies than what you see at first right

Joseph: 49:51

that most of the time does not happen and you can talk to coda about that. You know most of the these movies that stand out here will continue standing out and will actually only get better, I think, in your memory. You know, as the year progresses and they have opportunities to sort of impress. So you never know if something like Sorry Baby is going to find an audience, a wide audience in theatrical, and that might just be the last push that it needs wide audience in theatrical and that might just be the last push that it needs. But when I see that screenplays do really well coming out of sundance, I think this is one of the biggest screenplays to keep an eye on, right at the very least right.

Jules: 50:29

I would say that I differ from you in certain aspects in that for me, the field of the film is just too, you know, kind of again stripped back, micro-budget. That for me, I'm not sure right now, even though it was among the films that I most responded to at Sundance. I'm not sure right now that I see it as a film that I feel sure is going to break through in such a big way. There's a polish to a real pain that I don't think is in this film big way. There's a polish to a real pain that I don't think is in this film just yet. And for some reason, when I think about this film and I think about A24 buying this film, I certainly don't think of something like Sunday, like, excuse me, after Sun, which was a masterpiece in my opinion. I see, honestly, I feel more something like last black man in san francisco or from san francisco, um, in this really, uh, beautiful, lovely film.

Jules: 51:28

It came out in 2019, that was bought by a24, but it had a very like, you know, low level kind of release part. You know, very select theaters, mostly um on demand, um, at least during the 2019 landscape, and you know it was a very worthwhile film. It had a lot of praise from critics, but it was just operating on a much lower register. Um, again, I think that there's a little bit more polish in that film too, at least visually. It was a, it was was a grander film. The cinematography in that movie, for example, last Black man from San Francisco Um, and you know, I just feel like again, this film is operating on a much lower register where I'm not a hundred percent sure or confident that it's going to break in, even with an A24 acquisition and pastel behind it. I don't know. That's sort of what I'm feeling right now. Again, it's carried by the strength of this, the promising potential of this filmmaker. I'm just not 100% sold yet that it's a surefire contender for something like screenplay the films that have sort of these shortcomings.

Joseph: 52:31

They have these weak points, these Achilles heels.

Joseph: 52:40

Every film has it, even the film that eventually wins, whether it's Nora or Conclave or Coda, power of the Dog, whatever.

Joseph: 52:47

Every film has its weaknesses and it has its strengths. It always comes down, in my opinion, to the campaign. So there's really no very big reason for the Last Black man in San Francisco to get zero nominations and Minari to walk away with five nominations, other than the campaign just was not there. And so, in my opinion, the biggest hurdle that Sorry Baby is going to have is that it is a 24. And, as we know, they're going to have a stacked slate of critically acclaimed films, films that are going to play in more popular, as I said, more powerful festivals, and sundance like con right now, and that is going to be the difference maker. I don't think a24, as we saw last year, is going to be good at getting more than two or three films nominated throughout all of the academy awards right and as soon as the brutalist shows up, then sing sing is going to have a problem being nominated for very many right, right and and sort of.

Joseph: 53:42

You know sing sing gets. You know its trial is the theatrical market. It sort of flopped and that left an opening, and they weren't going to sit and wait for sing sing to make a a comeback, even though they scheduled it for a re-release. No, we both know that that wasn't going to happen. They were going to jump on the quickest pony that would take them to a best picture nomination and they did that with success. But so, in my opinion, it's not that these films sort of are more low-key and will be less embraced, it's that they're not going to be campaigned to the same degree. So if you campaign this movie like last black man in san francisco, as passionately as you can paint minari, then it should really have no problem getting the two nominations of past lives. Now I will say something like after sun, which again suffered because everything everywhere all at once is there right, unlike after sun.

Joseph: 54:34

I do think that something like Sorry Baby is a more it's singular, but still conventionally told film. I do think that there is more of an artistic bend to After Sun, which maybe was less accessible to some voters. I don't think that's Sorry Baby. At the same time, I don't want to position it as you know Sorry Baby. I'm sorry for the comparison, but I mean it as a compliment. I don't want to sort of align it with tiny furniture either, right, where it's a very singular take and it's such a wonderful voice, but it's not necessarily the thing that is going to be most poignant to viewers.

Joseph: 55:09

I think this is an incredibly moving story, right, not just a great voice, but a story that's going to reach a lot of people and it's going to be very moving. And and I know that there are going to be people in the industry you know the higher ups actresses who are going to be dying to work with her and are going to be big fans of this film in particular. And so to me it comes down to the campaign, and already it sort of starts, you know, in the back only because it's A24. And so if A24 focuses, I think absolutely you can have the past live nominations here as well. Now, if they get distracted and go elsewhere, then I think obviously you could see it not get any nominations, sort of like Bo Burnham did with eighth grade. Right.

Joseph: 55:53

So can they stay focused? Will they be committed?

Jules: 55:56

Right, I know, I think those are really good points that you bring up Again. I'm just not fully seeing it just yet, but I think that those are definitely worthwhile points to sort of chew on as to why something might or might not happen in this particular case. A film in this group that did really well for audiences was Twinless. We did see that film.

Jules: 56:20

I quite liked this movie. It was very enjoyable, very charming, and I'm a big fan of this filmmaker. You know we saw their first film straight up on Netflix, I believe and we liked again his voice and his sort of perspective and I think he just continues that trajectory in this film and he just, I feel, is gifted at making a very, you know, entertaining, charming vehicles, and this is no exception. I do think this is the best performance I've seen yet from Dylan O'Brien, who gets a chance to really flex some muscles here some acting muscles, I mean and I think he does a wonderful job here and I just thoroughly enjoyed this piece and it's no surprise why most people did enjoy it as well. And again, this was the audience award winner. Yeah.

Joseph: 57:14

Audience award winner. Special jury prize for Dylan O o'brien yeah he got great mentions. James sweeney, I think, is a filmmaker of our time. Actually I I don't hate the lena denham comparison again, and I mean it as a compliment. You know someone who's really sort of at the pulse of young, uh, members of society, young moviegoers, and so I don't think that this is the film that's going to take him to any sort of, you know, big awards night or a lot of accolades at the end of the year, but it is another step to getting there, not unlike someone like Cooper Rafe again, who was here in the festival with a TV project, but again these voices that are going to form over time.

Joseph: 57:54

I just want to stress the idea that I think it's great that James Sweeney got another film and I want to see a third film of his right I don't want to see him co-opted into writing spider-man, whatever right, and I don't want to see him sort of forced onto onto tv.

Joseph: 58:11

Like I said, I just don't know if the future is there. I think it was a uh, too much of a a hiatus for Lena Dunham in her return to the big screen All those Years on Girls again wonderful program but I want to see her on the big screen. And again, Phoebe. I think Phoebe belongs on the big screen. She should write and direct for the big screen. That's where we need her.

Jules: 58:34

Right Interesting thing about Lena Dunham. I feel that she's had a little bit of a resurgence with some of her recent film projects and I think you're right, I think we lost a little bit of her during the girls program, which I think started off strong but it kind of went downhill. You know, I think the start of that show had its strengths but you know I was less enthused with some of the later seasons. And then you see her again, you know becoming less infused with some of the later seasons and then you see her again, you know becoming more of a force as a female filmmaker and I think that's really nice to see.

Joseph: 59:06

I mean when you see, yeah, when you see katherine called birdie, you realize damn.

Joseph: 59:10

We missed at least two really good lena dunham films between yeah you know, a tiny furniture and katherine, called birdie um because she was making that show. And again, all power to you, you know, to make whatever sort of art you want to make, but it is at the expense of the cinema, right? It's the cinema's loss. And so I really think that Lena Dunham, and even someone like Greta Gerwig, who I think is getting too co-opted into making these giant blockbusters, you know, I really I'm sure she's going to have a wonderful take on the chronicles of narnia and it's going to be, you know, a step forward in her career and her artistic sort of repertoire, and I'm sure it's going to be wonderful. But I would really love to see her, you know, make another original film, right? You?

Jules: 59:55

know, yeah, um, another film, uh that won a uh jury prize, special jury award for ensemble cast, was plain clothes, which we did get the chance to see, and some people were talking about this film as well. It has this 90s vibe. It's shot on film, you know it's. Uh, it certainly gives off. You know hardcore 90s vibes, um, about an undercover officer who's trying to lure and arrest, you know, gay men for public indecency. Um, I like this film. I thought there were virtues of this film, um and uh, it was a good uh outing for, uh, carmen emmy, his first film, um, and I particularly enjoyed, uh, the two leads, tom Blythe and Russell Russell, who I love, russell Tovey Some people were talking about that film. Let's see.

Joseph: 1:00:49

What did you think? Well, I was a big fan of the film as well. Wonderful first film. Again, I'm not sure it's going to have the broad support it needs to go beyond, you know, beyond mentions for first film, this is a surefire Independent Spirit Award nominee, and I say that with the highest regard and the highest compliment. The best televised award.

Jules: 1:01:08

I'm a little surprised. Very good, very good film. I am a little surprised, since we were talking about Twinless and this goes back to a point you were making earlier very strongly about distribution and acquisition this film, twinless, as charming as it is, I'm surprised it doesn't have a US distributor quite yet. I believe it's.

Joseph: 1:01:27

Republic Pictures who have picked?

Jules: 1:01:28

up the world? Are they distributing it?

Joseph: 1:01:29

That's what IMDb says. They've picked up worldwide rights and so, unfortunately, I think this is going on streaming. But I think again, james Sweeney is for theatrical. A movie like Twinless is to see with an audience. I think that's the next step for him and I think it's in the offing. I think three or four years time he will be in theaters.

Jules: 1:01:51

Right Playing Clothes does not have a distributor, but I feel like that film could really fit in Strand Releasing I have no idea what strand releasing is waiting for here. I really do not um another film that we saw was actually a ended up being quite a big film because it won the dramatic competition grand jury prize was atropia um uh, which has a very interesting premise of a sort of you know, faux iraq sort of uh setting that's being used so that incoming um uh soldiers can sort of you know exercise and practice run before they enter the you know quote unquote, real thing.

Jules: 1:02:31

Um, it's, uh, it's a sharp comedy, it's a sharp satire. Um, I liked the film. I enjoyed watching it. I thought there were parts of it that I thought were quite interesting and thought-provoking, and also I laughed quite a bit, and so I quite enjoyed it. I think critics were more mixed on it. It did end up winning the competition, the special jury prize. I think people were surprised by that, and no one has bought this film either.

Joseph: 1:03:02

I'm not surprised that no one has bought it. This is, hands down, the biggest surprise for me at Sundance. I absolutely adored this film. Alia Shaka and a great ensemble cast you just bust a gut for an hour plus's. Wonderful, it's wonderfully made, it's wonderfully shot, wonderfully edited. Uh, again, a great ensemble. I cannot wait to see what else this filmmaker makes hayley gates. I'm so happy that it won the grand jury prize. The fact that it doesn't have again a distributor speaks more to what I will call the cowardice of the market right now. Um, and maybe some reluctance of audience members to go. And, you know, try to discover something new or experience something new, because this isn't, you know, a conventional story by any means, nor is it conventionally told by any means but, it is so worthwhile, so worthwhile, right.

Joseph: 1:03:51

I hope it gets a theatrical release. I'm thinking magnolia. I don't think magnolia should sleep on this. I think they could have a success here. So that's what my gut says right if not ifc, I think. To me this is an absolute classic.

Jules: 1:04:05

I cannot wait to see this again um other films that we uh caught here. We did see sunfish and other stories on green lake. I quite like that. It was, uh, you know, sort of an episodic film, but it was told really anthology, yeah, an anthology film, excuse me, um. It was told really sincerely, um, and I was quite moved by it and so I I enjoyed watching that film another great ensemble joanna hogg is part of the production team there uh, wonderfully made, I think also one of our favorites.

Joseph: 1:04:34

Another great ensemble, beautifully shot, uh, really promising filmmaker. Again, no one has bought this, but again they're just sleeping on it because maybe they're afraid of the market. They're certainly risk averse, but you look at what Magnolia was able to do with Thelma and I think it just speaks to the possibilities here of when a distributor really can sort of tap into what's going to speak to an audience. Right. And I think this coming of age story was absolutely wonderful.

Jules: 1:05:04

Right. We also saw Ricky, which you know personally. I was a little bit let down by. It's a very compelling story about a 30-year-old man who's coming out of incarceration and adapting to life. He's been incarcerated of incarceration and adapting to life. He's been incarcerated since he was a young man, so there's a very interesting dynamic that's playing out, of sort of missing your growing up hood and having to just adapt to adulthood right away. I don't feel like the film really delivered on its premise too much for me, but it was a very interesting story. I think some people did like that film.

Joseph: 1:05:40

It actually won, I believe, the Best Director Prize on the special jury, so that's great. And, of course, stephen James is a really wonderful actor really underrated actor does a wonderful job here, as does Cheryl Lee Ralph in a supporting term.

Jules: 1:05:54

Right, I like to love Brooklyn about this sort of relationship triangle between a man and two women, but there's something very breezy about the piece and very accessible and also very honest, and so I like that movie. Um, I didn't hear quite a lot of. I didn't hear a lot of talk about it, though unfortunately.

Joseph: 1:06:14

No, this was another one that I really enjoyed, just again, wonderful, wonderful actors. You have Andre Holland, nicole Beharie, dawanda Wise a great, great group of actors. I thought it was beautifully shot and wonderfully edited. I really look forward to what this filmmaker makes next. And I believe there's something really interesting about it, because I believe the screenplay wasn't specifically written for this group of cast nor this director, but it was written a while ago and the sort of artists maybe Andre Holland sort of came to the script and they sort of made it their own and I thought it was a very authentic, sincere film and, again, I can really see this finding an audience. I can really see this finding an audience. Another film.

Jules: 1:06:59

we really see this finding an audience. Another film we caught was Bunny Lover about a Chinese-American cam girl, and I believe Rachel Sennett is involved as a producer in that. She's also in the film for a little bit.

Jules: 1:07:10

For a little bit and this cam girl gets involved in this sort of relationship with this guy over cam, it kind of goes a little bit awry. You know, I felt this film had some potential and uh, I liked some of the things it was doing, but overall I think it felt a little bit um, it didn't quite meet its potential um, and I think some people were uh critical of the piece as well I mean, I did, I, I I liked the actors in it and I and I did think that she did get some sincerity from her, from her cast, and I do think the piece was well cast as well.

Jules: 1:07:48

And moving on to the world cinema dramatic competition, there are a few films here that I think really stood out. Among them was DJ Amit, which was the winner of the special jury prize and the audience award and the audience award, and this film I actually heard quite a lot of people talking about. I heard it was a crowd pleaser. Unfortunately I did not get the chance to see it. It's about a young 15-year-old boy in North Macedonia who's in love with music and is sort of using music as a way to, you know, navigate, you know a conservative community, and I think he also is in throes of finding his first love. So this film did really well and I expect that it's going to be a crowd pleaser for many festivals to come. I believe that it's going to be a film that's going to pop up in many other festivals. Let's see.

Jules: 1:08:38

I heard quite a bit about Cactus Pears, which I think was going to be a film that's going to pop up in many other festivals. Let's see. I heard quite a bit about Cactus Pears, which I think was just announced as a film that's going to be part of the New York New Directors, new Films Festival, which is a festival that we love A great festival. It's really a nice thing to be accepted into that festival. And this is a queer story, uh, taking place in india. An indian film between a 30 something uh man who falls in love with another indian man from the countryside while grieving his father, I'm grieving his father, and so I heard spectacular things about that.

Jules: 1:09:18

Um, I expect that we'll be hearing more about it as well. Two Women is a Canadian film about these two women and sort of their. I think it's a friendship between them and one of them is about to engage in a love affair or infidelity and using something like that to sort of start over, start a new chapter, uh, sort of possibly exercise some demons. Um, this is a film that I heard quite a bit about, uh, and it's also a film that I think is uh going to be playing at other festivals as well, and it did win a special jury award for writing also. Um, there's the turkish film, the things you kill, which I heard a lot. A lot of people were talking about. I heard people were saying people were saying that it's a surefire contender for best foreign film, uh, which is interesting, and I think a man is dealing with the death of his mother and I think he enlists a farmer to help him enact some kind of act of vengeance. Um, so I heard a lot, quite a bit about that movie.

Joseph: 1:10:27

The filmmaker, I believe, is actually iranian and I think his previous film, terrestrial verses uh, was well noted in 2023, I believe, and I think that was on certain regard, in con, and so he's sort starting to develop a little bit more of a filmography with, possibly, international voters. So I think you're right, it would not surprise me at all to see this being selected for one of. It is co-production or so for some countries, uh, pick for international film, right and uh. Well, there was also the virgin of query lake, um, which is, I believe, an echo production, but it's taking place in argentina based on, I believe, a couple of short stories from this argentinian writer, and I believe it's a bit of a coming of age story with these, um, sort of these teenage girls and their relationship with this sort of boy, that they're infatuated with I think that had its fans again.

Joseph: 1:11:18

I do think that in the world cinema section you'll see less crossover from Sundance in terms of the bigger awards, but you're going to see a lot of selections here for international film. These films will a large number of them will end up representing some kind of country, so I would not be surprised to see Argentina electing the Virgin of Quarry Lake.

Jules: 1:11:40

I think Canada electing two women.

Joseph: 1:11:42

Yes, canada possibly electing two women. I certainly think my gut says that the UK is going to pick Cactus Pears to represent the UK. And DJ Ahmet and the Things you Kill are interesting, right, co-productions, co-productions, but also they have that Turkish background. I don't know if turkey will actually submit them. I wonder if north macedonia might select dj ahmet and if the things you kill might end up being selected by something possibly like from france, maybe, or poland. I've heard very good things about it. Yeah, um, maybe even turkey. I don't know, I have to see what turkey selections in the past have been, but I think it might be a bit edgy for them. I'm not sure, but I expect a lot of the films that you just mentioned to be selected to represent a country competing for international future.

Jules: 1:12:34

Yeah, and we did see a film on this section called Lose. That is a Hongong kong china production. Um, starring, you know, in a small part, isabelle huper. Um, but unfortunately for the the filmmaker, flora lau. Um. I think she's had some kind of presence in con um at some point. I think one of her films was in the uncertain regards section in 2013. But, you know, unfortunately it was a little bit of a disappointment for me. I don't think it fully reached what it was going for.

Joseph: 1:13:06

And if we look at the Midnight section, a couple of titles that stand out. I mean, unfortunately the reception for Opus wasn't very good and it's hitting theater soon, so we'll see if it's able to find an audience with um moviegoers. Um together actually was a standout here at sundance. I think the audience ate it up. We saw it, I think in the midnight premiere.

Joseph: 1:13:28

We saw it on the premiere yeah, the actors were there, the director was there. Um, they ate it up, I think, and it was actually one of the titles that sold really quickly, I think neon picked it up, I think.

Jules: 1:13:40

I think it's sold for the highest price from the festival.

Joseph: 1:13:43

Thus, far, I think neon sees a lot of you know possibility in the marketplace for a film that's sort of you know a horror but sort of a horror comedy and also a body horror.

Joseph: 1:13:53

Post the substance, right, post the substance. I think that that was one of the headlines, right? People were talking about how the substance had made it a market that was anxious to get their hands on horror films and release it to audiences. I don't know when they plan on releasing this neon, and I think, again, neon has that same a 24 problem, which is they're going to focus in on one or two movies at the expense of all the other ones. We'll see if Together benefits from that or suffers from that. Again, it's a comedy. Right, it's a horror, but it's also a comedy. I think this could find an audience in the US, and I think that's what Neon is banking on.

Jules: 1:14:35

Right, you know we saw the film. You know there were some things about it that I quite liked. I do think it's a film that, again, the audience completely ate up.

Jules: 1:14:44

It had a very good yeah uh, reception from the crowd and I think there's potential for it to do well, as you were saying, at the box office. However, you know, I don't know, I don't know if you can replicate something like the substance. I mean, this is very different from the substance, besides the body horror element aspect to it, um, but I don't know if they're going to be able to replicate that same success, right? Personally, I don't think it has as much.

Jules: 1:15:08

You know, for lack of a better term, substance to sort of carry it over, you know, into that sort of uh territory, right, but you know I think it could do well.

Joseph: 1:15:17

I don't think I'm I'm seeing any awards prospects here, but I think that if neon plays its cards right, they could maybe have a success on their hands here like long legs you know the campaign they rolled out for that I would certainly not wait for october or certainly the end of the year. I think this is a good summer movie actually you're gonna get a lot of good, good summer money from this right and uh.

Jules: 1:15:40

Moving on to the next section, which usually has a group of interesting films, right um, east of wall, you know about a, uh, a horse trainer, her ranch. It's a refuge that's that also functions as a refuge for wayward teenagers. Um, I think people quite like that one. I think it won the audience award at this section and it, um, and it also was bought, interestingly enough, by sony picture classics, yeah, uh, which is a very good acquisition team to have. Um, another title that quite a few people were talking about you know as being probably the most sundancey title out there, which is by design, where a woman switches bodies with that of a chair.

Joseph: 1:16:22

Julia Lewis, julia Lewis.

Jules: 1:16:24

Actually has sort of a mixed response, but I was actually. I didn't get a chance to see it, but I was actually very surprised by the amount of people who actually found something really kind of interesting about the piece. Yeah, and I heard it's shot really beautifully and that the film again has more pros than cons. Yeah, and I heard it's shot really beautifully and that the film again has more you know pros than cons.

Jules: 1:16:45

Yeah, let's see. Another film I heard about in this section was Mad Bills to Pay, or Destiny Vida Que no Soy Malo, about a Brooklyn man sort of you know navigating, you know his teenage girlfriend and you know hustling through the Bronx trying to get by. So I did feel that this kind of was a crowd pleaser for a lot of people. I think it won an award here. I heard quite a bit about that movie. I heard a bit about the Zodiac Killer Project, which is sort of this furthering this further examination of the Zodiac Killer Project, which is sort of this furthering this further examination of the Zodiac Killer. I think that film had some fans. And Reigns Over Babel, I think had some fans too.

Joseph: 1:17:30

Yeah, some people at Sundance really liked that film as well, I think, from a Colombian filmmaker, first film, I believe.

Joseph: 1:17:36

All those films, I think, have their fans and some of them even have, you know, buyers who are willing to sort of take the risk and release them to major audiences and I think some will even find some success there. But I do think that those films in general are going to have a tough time finding an angle into the awards season, whether it's end of the year, accolades or certainly anything sort of broadcast and eventually Oscars. I think the title that has really stuck in people's minds and we've spoken about it at length is Sorry, baby. I think the future is bright there. I think the other title that does not get mentioned enough that we have yet to talk about, which I think is really important bright there. I think the other title that does not get mentioned enough that we have yet to talk about, which I think is really important, is Omaha. Right, it does not get mentioned enough as a movie that has so much potential to crash that race, right, right.

Jules: 1:18:31

We saw this film. I loved this movie. I think it's really well done. It's very moving, it's very touching. It's a feature debut and it stars Joe Marzaro, who's been having John Marzaro, who's been having an incredible last few years. He's always great. John Marzaro he's always terrific. Just last year he was in September 5.

Jules: 1:18:52

The year before that. He was absolutely phenomenal, in my opinion, in past lives. So it's just a matter of time before John Pajaro gets recognition. Exactly, a very beautiful actor, very talented actor, and he gets an incredible part here and does a beautiful job. He really breaks your heart by the end of it. The film is taking place during the financial crash about a father and his daughter and his son undergoing this road trip, and it's going to be revealed later on in the film, uh, what the intent of the road trip is. Um, again, john marjora is absolutely beautiful here. The young actress who plays the daughter I thought was just stellar, stellar, stellar. She is so gifted, uh, very pure, very natural talent and it's just a very moving film. It's very well done and very tender and intimate and powerful. And so.

Jules: 1:19:53

I don't think enough people talk about this movie. I'm very surprised that it doesn't have a buyer. Yes. I would think that this would be a film that some studio or some smaller boutique studio would see as a horse in this race?

Joseph: 1:20:06

Absolutely, I would blame this again on the marketplace. I would blame this on the cowardice, the risk adverse, distributors, but I absolutely think I'm shocked that this hasn't yet to be picked up. To me, this kind of reads like when bleaker picked up mass, remember in 2021. I think that bleaker would have tried campaigning this and they may have had some success. Um, certainly, something like sony picture classics, I think, could have picked this up or could potentially still pick this up. I think it would be a strong film to add to its repertoire, even though, again, sony Picture Classics is sort of specializing more and more in these foreign films, if you look at something like the Outrun. But I think this film has tremendous potential. I think that young actress could definitely get a lot of mentions for her breakout performance.

Joseph: 1:20:55

And of course, john Margaro is fantastic in this. I'm going gonna repeat what I said, which is the idea that the film again not unlike sorry baby, I think is locked and loaded with what it delivers, right, what it sets out to deliver and what it accomplishes. So that if you were to put a more established name on it right, if it was not a directorial feature debut, right If this was I'm looking at the list now if this was presented by Ira Sachs, the future would be much brighter. Right, because there is that bias. Right, but without the bias of the name filmmaker behind the film, the film is incredibly strong and I think all it needs is the right distributor to A find an audience and, b sort of coax that into a nomination for screenplay, certainly for John Magaro. So I'm hopeful that someone's going to you know, smarten up and pick this up soon.

Jules: 1:21:54

Yeah, I really liked that film and, like you said, I think those were the two biggest takeaways from this section with regard to future.

Joseph: 1:22:05

Oscar prospects.

Joseph: 1:22:07

But now, moving on to the premiere section, I think we're going to find a couple more films there that stick out, and certainly what I would call the heavy favorites. Here. Let's start with a film called Lurker right, what I would call the heavy favorites. Here. Let's start with a film called Lurker right, which was one of the few films to definitely get distribution via movie right, a movie finally breaking out last year with the Substance. But I'm not sure they're going to find the same type of success here that they did with the Substance. They have a couple movies that they're going to release here. I just think it's more, you know, catering to their great audience that they have on streaming. I think that's what this is for. But it had some really great notices, especially for its actors.

Jules: 1:22:43

Yeah, this is a film I was very disappointed to have missed. I really wanted to see this film. Hearing the movie acquired it is great. It seems right up their alley. It seems right up my alley. It's the kind of film I would love. This man, played by a actor who I think has a french background, uh, theodore pellerin, who is a very strong actor, um, who sort of gets infatuated, I think, and uh, sort of, you know, wiggles his way into the world of a musical artist, I believe, played by archie metkawe, um and uh, medec medecque, and he, uh, I remember him from having a a pivotal part in salt burn.

Jules: 1:23:26

He's been breaking out right and so those two actors, I think, had a lot of mentions from this film, um, a lot of acclaim, and I think this was a film that I think really did well. We heard a lot about it when we were at the festival, yeah, people who kind of said, you know, it was an experience watching it. It was kind of a cringe fest in a way.

Joseph: 1:23:45

Yeah, but in in a good way a lot of people, a lot of people mentioned ingrid goes west yes, kind of like that.

Jules: 1:23:51

Yes, and I really love ingrid goes west great. I love that film. Um and so, uh, you know, I think this film has a little bit more of a dramatic bend to it than Ingrid Goes West. Possibly. You know, it's not as comedic I think. Um, but uh, I think that it sounds absolutely spectacular. I can't wait to see it and uh, yeah, that was a film that was talked about.

Joseph: 1:24:11

I'm glad Mubi got it. Yeah, I think another title worth mentioning here is All that's Left of you, right, which is directed by Sherian Davos. I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that, but I certainly remember her from her wonderful film in 2009, I believe Amrika, which I believe went to Sundance as well. She's been working on TV for a little bit and she even stars in this film, but it's sort of a film that's talking about, I think, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, so it couldn't be more timely has yet to be picked up, but it had a lot of really good ink coming out of the festival.

Joseph: 1:24:46

I think there were even some musings about this film possibly being selected to represent a country in the international feature race, and that's why I bring it up, like those other films that we talked about on in the world dramatic section. I wouldn't be surprised if all that's left of you is chosen to represent, uh, one country, because I think it is a co-production. Um, among the international feature race. Uh, to me again, this is another title that again I it should, it should be picked up already. Um, it just speaks to the market, um, but they say it's very good, they say like.

Joseph: 1:25:19

so I've heard the the label epic a lot I think in in the fact that I think it may be chronically chronicling multiple points of view or multiple moments in time yeah um, but again such a timely topic, and so I would not be surprised to sort of see this film sort of represent someone in international future and maybe even finding some success, um success with audiences.

Jules: 1:25:40

Right, Exactly, I agree. You know, I heard good things about this film too. I thought that it was. I heard that it was a very compelling piece.

Joseph: 1:25:49

And then the other, when you know, when we speak about crossover success with audiences, I think there are two films that are again just really primed to break out, hopefully, that are again just really primed to break out, hopefully, I think, over the spring. Which is number one the Banquet right. Which is by Andrew Ann. We had an opportunity to see that. We did see that had a wonderful ensemble. I think you know this is a crowd pleaser. It was certainly a crowd pleaser when we saw it in its premiere.

Jules: 1:26:16

Yeah, it's a film that's pretty ready for mass appeal. You know it's a film that's it's pretty ready for mass appeal, right? You know it's a remake of the ang lee film, right?

Joseph: 1:26:22

and james shamus, I even think is sharing some of the credit here for the screenplay.

Joseph: 1:26:26

I think he wrote the original one right, and it sort of came to the festival with bleaker already, uh, with the film already attached. So I think bleaker may have a success here. And if it does find success, the reason why I mentioned it is because I wouldn't be surprised if a successful the banquet a banquet that breaks out over the spring, that can make a nice chunk of of change, is able to sort of muster some type of, for example, sag ensemble nomination at the end of the year. Um, and it would be a very big coup, I think, for andrew ann, who hasn't really had an opportunity to sort of show his movie to wider audiences yet right.

Joseph: 1:27:06

So yeah fire island was a hulu thing exactly right and it didn't have a lot of appeal there yeah, and then uh spa, uh, spa night spa night was.

Jules: 1:27:15

Uh, you know it was. That was a smaller problem, right? I'm not sure. If it was, it might have been strand releasing. I right.

Joseph: 1:27:19

I'm not sure. If it was, it might have been Strand releasing, I think maybe Rekina Lorber that released that, but I think it's great for him to finally have a film that's going to get out there to a larger audience in a theatrical sense. Right.

Joseph: 1:27:30

And I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility to have a SAG Ensemble nomination there, when you have bowen yang with the gladstone um, you have uh young jin yoon, you have joan chen wonderful actors, uh, uh, actors that are are getting a chance to to shine, and, and I even think one actor is making his english language debut, so, uh, calumary trans in this as well, so I would not sort of count that out yet, right, um?

Jules: 1:27:57

I, you know, I think it's a film that for me stood out more, more than anything, for its colorful cast, exactly which I think they're all very charming, and I will say that I see more like a possible independent spirit award, best screenplay nomination, kind of more than I do like a SAG award, you know, for the ensemble right now, at least for me.

Joseph: 1:28:23

But I get what you're saying If it's a film that makes a good amount of money. It could factor in a bigger way possibly, and I think it could be a sleeper hit. I really do. I think I would also mention the Ballad of Wallace Island, which is coming out pretty soon and that has focus features behind it. Really interesting story here in the sense that it's sort of based on a short film that was nominated for a BAFTA for Best Short Film. People have mentioned the supporting turn by the actor who I think is actually one of the co-writers as well there, um, the lead actor also involved with that short film, one of the co-writers on that, um, and I think it could find a lot of crossover success. You know, um, it seems like it has. It's going to have its element of romance and humor and I the other reason I bring it up is because, if it is a success, I do think that there's original music in here and so I would not be surprised especially with that.

Joseph: 1:29:19

As I said, aforementioned bafta nomination for the short and bbc is involved in the production here it could be a contender for song exactly I would not be surprised to see it contend for something like original song and for it to get some bafta love and on those long lists, depending again on how it does in the market and right now I can see it sort of again being sort of a sleeper hit.

Jules: 1:29:39

Right, and two films that I think are interesting to mention here because I think they similarly kind of, you know, disappointed for people a little bit. I'm just going to mention them really quick. Was you know kind of? The Cumberbatch had a movie with the thing with feathers which I don't think, you know, I think people were mostly disappointed by it. And also, interestingly enough, olivia Coleman had a film with John Lithgow Jimba which I think also kind of disappointed. We didn't get a chance to see either.

Joseph: 1:30:07

But Sophie Hyde, I believe the director of that had directed. Colette Julio Brand beforehand and that figured into the race and I think Emma Thompson got really close to nomination for that right and two other films that I think did really well that again unfortunately didn't get a chance to see were iris sax's.

Jules: 1:30:24

Uh, peter hujar's day. Um, we love iris sax. He's an incredible filmmaker, yeah uh in 2023. His most recent film, passages, was one of the best films of that year. Went to sundance, went to sundance, um, and actually did, you know, factor into the race somewhat?

Jules: 1:30:39

uh, francis Graus was an incredible actor, one of my favorite actors. He ended up winning the New York Film Critics Circle for Best Actor, and so you know it wasn't. You know he didn't get an eye for any of the broadcast rewards, but it was a film that was in the bubble.

Joseph: 1:30:52

Yeah, and it included Adele Xeropoulos, oh yes, who everyone remembers from Blue Zoologist Color, and Ben Whishaw is there, who he's going to reteam with, and so Ben Whishaw is in this film playing the famous photographer Peter Hujar, and I think the film has an experimental take.

Jules: 1:31:07

I think it's just basically a conversation between him and his friend Linda Rosenkranz in the 1970s and his apartment and I think that's pretty much the premise of the film is just the conversation. I think some people were a little bit thrown off by that premise, but I think critics have really responded to it. It was bought by Janus Films, yeah, which is a huge coup.

Joseph: 1:31:29

First time, I no, they released Passages as well.

Jules: 1:31:33

No, no Passages was Mubi.

Joseph: 1:31:34

Mubi, I'm sorry, excuse me.

Jules: 1:31:40

I thought Mubi would have picked this one Right, but I expect this film to do really well with critics and to sort of be in that conversation of year's best these top 10 list, top 15 list, top 20 list, whatever. I think it's a film that's going to have a good chunk of acclaim. And another film that did well was Rebuilding. It had a very good critical reception and, of course, it's very timely because it has to do with a wildfire that's occurring in this community, right off of this American tragedy that happened with the California wildfires.

Jules: 1:32:09

That was something that people on the ground at Sundance were really talking about and it's just a very timely story. And it got very good mentions for Josh O'Connor and his performance Um, he's coming off a great year last year, he has another great year coming up this year, and so I expect him to be a, you know, formidable figure just with all his projects point blank this year, um, and so he can add this to that long list. I think he has the music man coming out as well, um, and he's, and he's got a good number of projects coming out.

Joseph: 1:32:42

Right. I think, if nothing else, rebuilding will be an additional feather in the cap of Josh O'Connor. I fully expect him to be around for Cannes with one of his other titles.

Joseph: 1:32:54

And then I expect him to be around for Telluride or possibly maybe even Venice for another title.

Joseph: 1:33:01

So I think we'll be seeing Josh O'Connor at plenty of festivals and it's only a matter of time before he finally is nominated and sort of the angle here of the group of work might actually end up pushing him to that nomination this year. I don't know if Rebuilding is the title Unfortunately it doesn't have a distributor yet but I do know that the filmmaker, I think, worked well with Bleaker Street a few years ago with A Love Song, and so I wouldn't be shocked if Bleaker Street sort of rolls the dice on this film and sort of capitalizes on that idea that Josh O'Connor is going to have a really big breakout year. And and you know, the thing about iris sax and peter hoosier's day is as amazing as he is. You know, it's just hard for him to ever figure into the oscars and you sort of have to have such a monster perfect situation for that ever to happen unfortunately unfortunately, he's such an amazing filmmaker but because he's, he's told so many different stories, and so many stories that you would think would appeal to the academy.

Joseph: 1:34:05

Anyway, whether it's little men or love is strange, right, um, he just hasn't been able to cross over, and I'm not sure that peter hoosier's day is going to be the film to sort of have a crossover, even though again. Ben wishaw has been on the bubble for a while now. And so it's only a matter of time.

Jules: 1:34:23

Yeah, I would look out for Ben Whishaw again. I think this film is going to, you know, be something that critics mention at year's end to some degree, and I would watch out. Ben Whishaw, I think, is in the right place to be in a place of contention with regard to regional critics, possibly even New York Film Critics Circle or National Society of Film Critics. So watch out for Ben Whishaw in that capacity.

Joseph: 1:34:47

I mean it's going to happen at some point. We know that.

Jules: 1:34:49

And I would say probably one of the films we most heard about at the festival talked about was If I had Legs I'd Kick you Right, starring Rose Byrne.

Joseph: 1:34:59

Yeah, I think, after that group of films, I'm going to say that the films that remain are what I call the big three, and these are the films that I think have the most potential to go the distance with Oscar voters and accolades and, you know, sort of stick around in the conversation, especially as we start going through the summer season and the fall season and we start getting these other lineups and films again, they will fall by the wayside. All you have to do is look up Blitz from last year, right, right. So I think these are the big three and I think a great place to start is, as you said, if I had legs I'd kick you.

Jules: 1:35:34

Right, this is Mary Bronstein's second feature, her first one being Yeast, which I think came out a while ago, I don't even remember and so this is a film that, again, we heard a lot of people talk about, and it's basically a film. We did get the opportunity to see this film, and it basically centers around a woman, you know, kind of undergoing this kind of nervous breakdown because a lot of uh chaos is surrounding her regarding, you know, her parenting and her child and you know, uh, her marriage and her profession. So everything is sort of, you know, chaotic, coming to a head and um, and so, you know, it's a, it's a sort of a dark comedy, you know, has a lot of dark elements to it, um, but also, you know, there's quite a bit of humor to it. You know, we had an audience that was laughing at a lot of uh set pieces. Um, I will say that there's a big safty's energy to this movie, very, very, very big um, and it's, you know, not surprising. Mary Bronson, I think, is one of her partners.

Joseph: 1:36:45

I believe it's Ronald Right, ronald Bronson Right.

Jules: 1:36:48

He's been a collaborator, he's collaborated with the Safdie brothers, and so I feel this film is really inspired by that style. I would say that that's an aspect to this film that I find a little bit detrimental. You, I would say that that's an aspect to this film that I find a little bit detrimental. You know, I think there's a lot of you know again chaos going on in this film, but in a way I thought sometimes the film was a little bit distracted by that chaos as opposed to kind of, you know, focus. I think the film could have been a little bit more focused. I do think it centers around a great performance by Rose Byrne. She's a great actor. She a very under, uh, underestimated, actor, um, she's always phenomenal. She's absolutely phenomenal here. She gets a chance to really showcase what she can do and she's riveting, um. So I think that's probably the aspect of this film that most stuck with me and I think probably the aspect that I think has the most potential to kind of carry over as the year progresses.

Joseph: 1:37:44

Right, it's a very claustrophobic piece that's going to make some viewers uncomfortable. I think some critics have even quoted as being a very unpleasant experience, but one they're grateful for anyway. The problem is that some Oscar voters are just going to find it unpleasant, right, and some of them may be short on the gratitude because they have a more conventional mindset when it comes to films. Right, I do think that Rose Byrne is a very undervalued actor. She has yet to be nominated.

Joseph: 1:38:15

I think she will be nominated at some point I think she's going to be very competitive here if, if critics get behind her. I think you know it's not, in my opinion, unlike tony collette and hereditary in the sense that it's an unconventional pick for the traditional academy awards voter or or broadcast award voter, and so this would need a lot of support from regional critics and certainly the top three new york la national film critics, um, but I think it's it's possible that that happens for her. I think one theme that we're going to talk about throughout this season is sort of the softy yeah brothers, the a24 connection, again A24 distributing this movie.

Joseph: 1:39:00

They have yet to announce when that is, but we already know that they have two Softie Brothers movies, individual films coming out later this year, probably going to figure heavily into the race at some point. And so I think I wonder if there's enough energy to go around to sort of to push each movie.

Joseph: 1:39:23

Um, and we sort of talked about this with sorry baby, but one of the big issues for any film released by a24 is that a24 is gonna have to pick a favorite right they're gonna have to pick a second, and if you're outside of that you're gonna have a difficult time sort of getting in right, and so I think that's part of the issue here, and another one is that there isn't much else to campaign besides Rose Burns turn. I don't think the screenplay is going to be embraced by the the writers branch. I do think that the film may foreshadow what ends up being a big year for ASAP Rocky. He does appear in Spike Lee's film, which I think is going to end up going to con. We'll see what happens. He's very good in this film too. People have mentioned him as a very strong ensemble. A lot of people were making a lot out of Conan O'Brien.

Jules: 1:40:13

I thought he was actually pretty good in this film.

Joseph: 1:40:15

He was very good in it. It has one of my favorites. Danielle from Patty Cakes is in here she's absolutely wonderful and there here and she's absolutely wonderful and there is so much going on in the movie and there's a lot of things that are unconventional, dare I say, erratic.

Joseph: 1:40:30

Yeah, um that it may be a turnoff to voters, but if critics really champion this, they're gonna force the voters hand to at least watch it. Watch this film and pop the screener, for example. I'm not sure if they're going to campaign this comedy or drama at the golden globes. Right, if she gets a nomination there, I think that helps. Rose byrne is no stranger to the sag awards, I believe. I think she's been nominated, I think at least with her ensembles, if not individually. Um, so it wouldn't surprise me to see her get a mention there, even though we know that they're not necessarily nuts for Safdie Brothers films?

Joseph: 1:41:08

They haven't really crashed there yet. But again, the Safdie Brothers theme will be a large part of this whole season.

Joseph: 1:41:15

And so this is the entry point and as festivals appear, we're going to revisit the name Safdie and unconventional turns and um filmmakers that are ripe for attention, and we're going to find out if. If mary bronstein maybe figures in there. It's not her first film. Actually, that film yeast, I actually think starred a young greta gerwig, yeah, so there is a little bit of a connection there. And does a24 have the firepower to sort of campaign everything equally and sort of make a dent in each individual race?

Joseph: 1:41:48

we're going to find out, but there's a lot of a lot of, um, sort of weak points in terms of how appealing the film is. For example, we haven't even started talking about theatrical. I don't think this is uncut gems at all. I I think you know uncut gems the way they. They release that, on sort of crashing christmas day with adam sandler it's. It's tough for me to think that this movie is going to be able to find a theatrical audience right, and I think that that may be a major factor, especially when you consider that the other two safty brother movies may be bigger audience players in terms of releasing theatrical and finding an audience and making some money, and that might be a pivotal hurdle for this film.

Jules: 1:42:29

Right. I think, like I said, I think it bears mentioning that, you know, even though I think you and I were a little bit more okay, a little bit more restrained with our enthusiasm for the film, it was a film that did well critically. You know it has a lot of critical acclaim. Critics really responded to this and maybe we won't be mentioning it down the line, but this film was actually picked up to be screened at the Berlin Film Festival. That's right, and it would go on to win the Best Actor Award for Rose Byrne, which was a huge coup for her. Yeah.

Jules: 1:43:05

And again, if you see the film, again it's not. If you see the film, it's not hard to see why. You know, the film is really, I think, at its best when it's sort of really focused in on this performance. That is, uh, very, very compelling right from rose burn and that wasn't, uh, I think, an uncompetitive win.

Joseph: 1:43:20

I think it was competitive. There were a lot of choices that year, so I think it was great for rosebird to sort of turn that out, um, and it's a great sort of first step again. I think the next step is deciding a release date, trying to get an audience to watch it and then sort of again forcing the hand of critics, and certainly major critics, which I think tony collette for hereditary, hereditary was missing. Sometimes you really have to push their hand if you want to make something like rose burn happen. Um, and then again, I think sort of ingrained in the movie is that if it goes anywhere it sort of goes by herself because there's so little else to to point out in the movie. That's, you know, ready for a voter to say oh, I want to nominate that. Yes.

Joseph: 1:44:04

The next movie to talk about, I think um, in that big three, is actually the adaptation of the broadway musical kiss of the spider woman which premiered at sundance right, and that was one of the bigger titles to premiere.

Joseph: 1:44:17

I think a lot of people mentioned how it was not a typical movie you would show at Sundance, certainly because it's a musical, but also it looked like a bigger project, and I will say that that when I saw it, I was really sort of impressed by how much movie was there in terms of, you know, everything they were able to achieve, and what I can only imagine and what I think has been sort of said, has been a more modest budget.

Joseph: 1:44:44

I think we're talking about the high twenties or the thirts, um, and so a lot of things going for this project. I mean, bill condon is no stranger to the oscars, right? Yes, um, a former academy award winner for gods and monsters, but he also made kinsey, which was able to get a nomination for laura linney, um, gods and monsters, of course, nominated for ian mckellen and lynn Redgrave, and then he was able to get one of the few writing nominations for a musical with Chicago, and then his film Dreamgirls, another musical, showed up in eight categories, I mean, three of which were song, but Jennifer Hudson won an.

Joseph: 1:45:20

Academy Award. Eddie Murphy was honored for supporting actor. Captain Zeta-Jones. Captain Zeta-Jones Won for Chicago.

Joseph: 1:45:26

Exactly, even though Rob Marshall, I believe, directed that film. But again, the costumes and, I believe, the art direction, the sound work. I think the sound work of Dreamgirls even won and I think, even if you look at something more recently, like Beauty and the Beast, the live action remake there, Got a few nominations. Got a few nominations, including for production design and costume design. It was a huge hit in theaters. I think it's a very impressive movie. I think there's a lot going for it. A lot of people were talking about the performances. Yes.

Joseph: 1:45:57

And the performances, I think, are certainly a highlight of the film. Yes, you know, and I think that's across the board, I think people were really sort of uh amazed by the job that Jennifer Lopez does and sort of they kept talking about this idea that she hasn't been in a musical and I, you know it. Just, it's absolutely crazy when, when you see the film, that she has not been in a big musical. Um, the musical numbers are so well realized. I thought they were some of the most visually rich, uh sort of set pieces I saw within the film and possibly within the entirety of Sundance. I think this is certainly one of Tobias Schleiser's I hope I'm pronouncing that right One of his uh best looking films. Yeah.

Joseph: 1:46:40

Um, and there's again. There's a lot of work there and, um, I think that's a great place to sort of spotlight the work of someone like colleen atwood, oh yeah, who's doing the costume design there and again, she's no stranger to, uh, academy awards and nominations and don't know her legendary sort of collaborations with tim burden. Um, the production design and the musical numbers again, is quite beautiful as well. Um, I believe, uh, scott chambliss, who has yet to be nominated for an oscar but has been nominated plenty of times, uh, among his guild. Um, so they did beautiful work there, um, and then I mean back to the performances. I mean, jennifer lopez is a wonderful job in the musical aspects and there's a lot of comedy to it.

Joseph: 1:47:20

Um, but I think not enough people mentioned how great Diego Luna is in this film and he has more of a supporting turn here, but he's so perfectly cast. I bought him in the musical numbers but more than anything, sort of the dramatic heart of the film that he shares with his scene partner. I thought he did a fantastic job and I again would not be surprised to see a lot of mentions for him later in the year. And then a lot of people had so many great things to say about the young actor, tonya Tu. Tonya Tu, who is the lead in the film yes, right, and he just did an absolutely fantastic job Fantastic Right, and he got a lot of great ink.

Joseph: 1:47:59

I think this is one of his first film roles, and certainly his first leading role yes, first film roles and certainly his first leading role.

Joseph: 1:48:08

Yes, right, because he is the true lead of the film and he is playing the role that was, I think, made popular by william hurt, um, who won an oscar for the same role in 1985. Um, and I think it'd be good to talk about that, the idea that something really going for this film is that it's such a respected property. Right in 1985 it was able to score nominations for picture and director for the great babenko um. William hurt was able to win, you know, raul julia, yeah, who played um valentine. Valentine did not get nominated but he got really close, he got really close and I will say he was campaigned as a co-lead, even though he did get a lot of traction. I think he did get a golden globe nomination, also nominated for screenplay at the academy awards. At the golden globes even sonia braga was nominated for the part of, uh, the spider woman, um, and again, sonia braga has yet to be nominated, but again she was nominated for that at the golden globes. Um, and then, beyond that sort of layer of sort of prestige that the project has, you sort of add on this additional layer, because it gets adapted from the original novel and from the movie again into the Broadway musical and then you put in names like Terrence McNally, you put in names like Chita Rivera, you put Kander and Eb, and so it's just a really respected project. And now it's come to Bill Condon again.

Joseph: 1:49:25

I wouldn't call him an oscar favorite, but I would certainly say he's on their radar and he makes projects that they respond to. Now, not all his projects do well, um, but I think more often than not he makes a project that voters, that resonates with voters. Even something like I remember mr holmes was a, was sort of a sleeper hit in 2015 and I think if it had the campaign had been managed a little bit better. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ian McKellen pick up more steam for that and certainly more text for that film, again teaming with Laura Linney. There it even includes Tom Fleischman, who has won an Oscar, has collaborated with some really prominent filmmakers. So again, to me, this is one of two Sundance projects that has a lot of sort of pedigree right and a lot of contention for numerous categories sort of built into the project in and of itself. You know, I'm talking about the costumes, the production design, the sound, the acting. I think by virtue of it, being able to compete in multiple categories. It stands out and so-.

Jules: 1:50:37

That's to its benefit.

Joseph: 1:50:38

That's really to its benefit. It's sort of the opposite of, for example, something like If I had Legs, where, again, I can't see it having much more traction than best actress, right. But here's something that could hit above the line and even below the line because it is a musical, um, and I also think that you know when I, when, when we saw it, I think the audience really ate it up and so I I do think that the commercial prospects on this film are high and could potentially be, you know, unconventional numbers for what is a Sundance premiere.

Joseph: 1:51:13

So I think that's yet another factor going for it, and so I think that this is a strong contender for a lot of categories.

Jules: 1:51:21

Right, you know, I think I was like you. I was impressed with a lot of aspects of this film. I think it has a lot of strengths and a lot of compelling aspects to it. I will say I do think that it's not a film that's going to be for everyone interesting about this film and that I think it's a very interesting antithetical piece to what just happened last year with Emilia Perez and Netflix, in that I feel this film is a more proper, adequate, fair representation of, for example, the trans experience, queerness in general, the story. The film is very queer forward, which I think think is one of its biggest strengths.

Jules: 1:52:08

There's a lot of Latino involvement in the project. It feels very Latino-centric. I know the 1985 film had more to do with, you know, brazilian politics, but this one is more Latino-centric, aiming to sort of have you know this is supposed to be occurring in an argentinian prison, um, but you know the film feels that way. You can feel the latino collaboration and talent in this film, not just from its you know, uh, no, from its uh respect for the source material, but also the performers, and so, in a way, I feel like people who had more of an issue with Emilia Perez tend to really respond to this film. That, I think, does a lot of things that Emilia Perez didn't do so well, and maybe even vice versa. If you really liked Emilia Perez, maybe you'll like this film a little less, because, again, they're both sort of opposite. They're both dealing with similar ingredients, but the ultimate product feels different, right? And so I also think there's something interesting too, as you were saying, the trajectory of this material that has had such a long history, history, and really, you know, a history that is sort of imbued with critical acclaim but also awards. So you talk about the 1985 film, which was a winner of Best Actor and was nominated for Best Picture. You talk about the Tony musical, which swept the Tonys that year, and so I think this film has that going for it and maybe, possibly, that's something that it's going to have to fight against, because it has all this reiteration of material, right, um, possibly we'll see what happens there, um, but I think there's a lot of rich things about the film.

Jules: 1:53:54

I do think the musical numbers are just dazzling. They're beautiful, they look great, yeah. Um, the production design and those numbers is wonderful. The costumes are divine, yeah, and I will say that I thought, you know, jennifer Lopez was a really big standout in this. She's sort of synonymous with the musical numbers, right, because that's when she appears Exactly. And you know, I thought she gave an incredible performance here. I think it really highlights all her strengths as a performer. You know her as an actress, her as an actress, her as a dancer, her as a singer it's all sort of packaged into one and it's a very it's a it's a it's a wonderful performance from her. You know, I will say I think you know Jennifer Lopez has had this sort of unfair relationship with the Academy Awards. She was so unfortunately snubbed from hostels a few years back, which was incredibly disappointing.

Jules: 1:54:48

And you know, when you look at her filmography and you look at films like Selena and Out of Sight and an actor who's never had her due, you know she has a really, you know, prime spot here to really shine and really kind of you know, make up for those losses and nominations because she gets a real chance to shine here. You can't help but see when she's on the screen she really, you know, she gives, she there's, there's. You get a little bit of Marilyn Monroe, you get a little bit of Ava Gardner, you get a little bit of Rita Hayworth you just feel that presence, you feel that glamour, you feel that exuberance um of you know 50s musical yeah musical starlets and it's really just lovely, it's just really uh powerful it's really memorable too.

Joseph: 1:55:31

Yeah, that's what the film is asking of her, and she delivers in eight like aces, aces yeah, yeah, and so she's whenever she's on screen.

Jules: 1:55:39

You can't help. But, you know, feel the echo of those beautiful starlets and it's a great aspect to this film.

Joseph: 1:55:45

It's a very, it's thrilling yeah, an audience has clapped and yeah, absolutely and I completely agree with you.

Jules: 1:55:50

I think this is one of diego luna's best performances. I was completely convinced by his character, oh yeah, and I think the chemistry between between him and 22 was very compelling, yeah, and very believable, um and so, yeah, I thought he was fantastic here and he fits the character like a glove like a glove, spectacularly um.

Jules: 1:56:09

And then I will say I thought I agreed 22 was absolutely fantastic here. I think he carries the entire film on his shoulders. It's so exciting to see a new performer, you know, kind of take on this risk and this venture and carry it off wonderfully. Um, he has a beautiful voice and so whenever he's in the musical numbers it also stands out to me and there's just so much heart and soul to his performance. I think he was really a a performance that stood out to a lot of people throughout the festival period and I think he really is the heart of this movie, um, and so I hope to see traction for all of these performers I mean when you look at someone like tonya too, and you know the national world review hands out that breakthrough actor thing right he's definitely going to contend in awards like that and again, certainly golden globes, and again, if, if people push, push it forward, you know, I really do think that he has a chance to to sort of come close at the very least.

Jules: 1:57:08

Yeah, yeah I would love that again. I think he's the heart here. I would love to for these three performers to get traction. I agree with you, the performances here are probably for me the biggest highlight of the movie. Um, and, as you said, bill conan is no stranger to the academy awards. I think he is on their radar and there's some. You know this feels very. You know he excels here. He excels in the musical aspects of this movie because this is sort of his bread and butter in a way and he does it wonderfully. But I also felt like I was quite touched by several aspects of the relationship between the two men and I thought that was handled with care as well.

Joseph: 1:57:49

Yeah, I think that's one thing going for the movie is that it does have sort of this glamorous musical aspect that is very much an homage to golden Hollywood musicals and again, it absolutely aces all of that. But it's also a really moving story right and it has a timeliness that is is perfect for the campaign right now if you're going to campaign this. Um, I also think that you know it has had so many iterations, but bill condon makes some bold changes here yes, I think it's probably the most.

Jules: 1:58:22

I think it's the most radical film that Bill Condon has ever done, in my opinion. You know, and I think that's you know, not saying nothing. Right. Right, but I a hundred percent agree with you.

Joseph: 1:58:32

And I think that it's going to be changes like that that I don't want to, you know get to and you know speak to in death on. But I think those changes that are really going to make, you know, critics and audience members sort of say, oh well, I do think it's adding something new to the discussion. But so I really think that to me, the only as someone who loves the original 1985 movie, I think that one of personally, for me, one of the shortcomings is that I feel like it could have a little more brutality in terms of its depiction of the prison system, right?

Joseph: 1:59:08

um, I get why you maybe don't want to, you know, depict that too, sort of um vividly, because you are trying to balance these two aspects. Um, that would feel odd, you know it's. It's certainly a juggling that you have to do, um, but to me, the only sort of reason why this film isn't locked and loaded in several races and and certainly like sort of cementing its competitiveness in multiple races above the line and below the line, is really only because it hasn't been picked up yet. And again, the only thing I can say to that is that it's a the volatility of the marketplace and sort of the cowardice and and and being risk averse.

Joseph: 1:59:51

Um, I think this movie would actually do really well, really well, if you put in the right hands if you put in the right hands and you show it to a wide audience and you release it at the right time. But I think it needs care.

Joseph: 2:00:03

I think it needs care because it's a very? Um, specific project and so you can't be putting it fourth or fifth or sixth on your list. But if someone like fox searchlight had bought this film, I would have said yes, you know. Digga luna is going to be nominated, jr flover is going to be nominated, tony 2 is going to contend. Costumes, production, design, sound, the works, but they haven't bought it yet. I don't know why they're. They're waiting necessarily. All I can say is maybe they're waiting till after con. Um, one aspect that I would talk about is you know, speaking of searchlight, I I think this would fit really well for sony classics yeah there is this sort of international element and I actually feel that this film could potentially play even bigger overseas than in the domestic market.

Joseph: 2:00:49

Right, and so part of me you know, knowing that sony classics likes releasing these sort of um international films to domestic audiences, I think whoever picks this up internationally is going to be really big um. It's going to be very important because you have to campaign to more international voters. I think you have to focus your campaign on all of these aspects. I don't think a campaign sort of dedicated just to Tonya 2 or just to Jennifer Lopez is really going to work for the film. I think you have to sort of campaign it as one giant product, one giant film, all these different aspects. And then I do do think there's a there's a part of me, that sort of you know, I there's an element in the way the film is made and what it talks about that, you know, kind of flirts with the aesthetic or the colors or a little bit of the yeah 100% skewness of our film that's why I thought of sony classics again.

Joseph: 2:01:45

I don't know why they haven't jumped on it, but I know that the outrun took a while to sort of stick with sony classics, I guess, to maybe get a number that they liked. And I know that this is one of the pricier films at sundance. But again I do feel like the film to a certain extent sort of campaigns itself.

Joseph: 2:02:03

Uh, once you sort of commit to it right right um, and that it does have a bright future in terms of the, the major theatrical market. Um, I don't know if sun ends was the place to premiere it. I wonder if a section in con would have been better. Um, there is more international appeal there. Um, I don't know if it could play. I mean, some people have said that it might play Toronto or Telluride later. I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't know if this is a better fall release, winter release or summer release. I can't make that out yet because I think it has to be a really sort of intricate campaign and rollout of intricate campaign and rollout.

Jules: 2:02:48

But I think if you're a distributor and you commit the time to it, I think there's an abundance of a reward that you're going to reap with this film at the end yeah, you know, I think you know we're waiting to see who buys it, and I think the fact that it's lacking a distributor right now is what's kind of creating some uncertainty here right, um, but almost everything in sundance is lacking in distribution.

Joseph: 2:03:06

Exactly that's a big problem, yeah exactly.

Jules: 2:03:09

It's certainly not alone in that conversation, but we'll see what happens there.

Joseph: 2:03:15

And then I think the last film I'll talk about as the big three is Train Dreams right, which is one of the rare films to have been able to pick up a distributor right. In.

Joseph: 2:03:26

Netflix, yes, and so right, which is one of the rare films to have been able to pick up a distributor right, and netflix, yes, and so we know that netflix, to a certain degree believes in the film is going to try to campaign the film. Um, a lot of things going for this film, right we didn't get a chance to see it.

Jules: 2:03:36

Yes, we did, but we did hear really really good things about it. It got really well received critically. It has a really good critical reception right and you know, I think amongst these top three we consider it to be probably, you know, the top of the top three right, exactly.

Joseph: 2:03:51

I think this is again one of the the, I guess, the most competitive title again because, like kiss of spider woman, it has multiple categories where it can hit. Um, people have certainly talked about the turn from joe egerton right and um who's due for a who's due for nomination.

Joseph: 2:04:06

At some point People have really spotlighted the cinematography and well, you know, let's start with this. This is another feature. So this is the same team more or less from Sing Sing, that sort of failed to sort of capture that nomination in January. They went on to premiere a film in Sundance in January. Capture that nomination in january. They went on to premiere film in sundance in january and again it was met with overwhelmingly positive, uh, reception by critics and audiences.

Joseph: 2:04:32

And so clint bentley is directing this one, but he did score a nomination on the screenplay for sing sing right along with uh, greg queter, uh, who scored a nomination for writing as well. He's co-writing this one. I believe they're both producing Black Bear is one of the companies behind this film. They were also working on Sing Sing, and so I debate whether that's a plus or a minus.

Jules: 2:04:57

Right, because they were just there.

Joseph: 2:04:58

Exactly? Is this a plus in the sense that we're more familiar with their work and we know that this isn't a one-off? We know that they make good films and we know that we sort of skipped them last year and we have sort of an iou?

Jules: 2:05:11

of them.

Joseph: 2:05:12

Well, they get nominated as writers right, but they didn't get nominated for the big one yeah and again. This is, you know, again, a movie that could potentially compete for best picture.

Joseph: 2:05:21

Yes, right, the reception is really good and Netflix is behind it. So you have to wonder if they're going to approach it with the IOU or they're going to approach it with the sort of been there, done that. I want to nominate you, not consecutively, right, I don't want to nominate you consecutively. Clint Bentley had previously directed Jockey, which did really well here at Sundance as well, and you know, at one point there was this idea that you know Clifton Collins Jr could finally muster a nomination for that. It didn't happen. It was too small of a film, too intimate of a film, so he hasn't necessarily broken in as a director yet.

Joseph: 2:06:02

It is based on a popular novella which I believe was shortlisted for the pulitzer, and I think that helps, and the writer in and of himself isn't a stranger to the to the movie treatment because, uh, he, I think, also wrote the source material for jesus the son which was made into a film and although a wonderful film and even though it didn't make much noise when it came out I think 2000, 2001, I think it's only grown in sort of admiration and appreciation from, from viewers, both in the industry and just cinephiles.

Joseph: 2:06:36

Um, so I think that that really helps. Um, I think casey affleck is an executive producer on this and I think he might have been attached to to act in it, to be the lead in it at some point, right, um, but this is again a film, a period piece, um sort of chronicling this uh individual who's uh a laborer laborer in the american west and sort of you get to see time pass as he's working on these different things and also, I think, recovering from a tragedy or tragedies involved in some matter, right I think there's a familial loss, but at the same time there's just people keep talking about this sort of epicness.

Joseph: 2:07:14

Yeah to the film, right, um, and also a lot of visual beauty to the film. And the cinematographer is also who also worked on jockey and he was able to get a mention, I think, from the spotlight, a spotlight award from the cinematographers guild.

Joseph: 2:07:25

So he's not a complete who also worked on Jockey, and he was able to get a mention, I think from the Spotlight Award from the Cinematographers Guild, so he's not a complete stranger there either, and I think he's presented films at the camera image, so he is slowly building that sort of reputation amongst his cinematographers and it has a very good supporting cast, from what I've heard, including Williamiam h macy and felicity jones um, and the story just in and of itself.

Joseph: 2:07:51

What I know of it sounds like it could certainly be the kind of thing that would be nominated for adapted screenplay.

Joseph: 2:07:57

I think joe edgerton, as we said, is very much overdue due for a nomination, but there's this aspect to the performance, which is that the film has a lot of narration, has what I've heard is a lot of narration by the wonderful will padden, yes, but I do wonder if that is going to affect how you know actors, you know sort of perceive the performance. If they're gonna, you know, take that away from the performance and maybe sort of have that be a reason why they keep him off.

Jules: 2:08:25

Is that a plus or a minus?

Joseph: 2:08:26

Is that a plus or a minus? I don't know. Again, I do think a Clint Bentley not unlike Greg, is not going to necessarily be able to to break into director yet, because they're very specific about who they want to highlight.

Joseph: 2:08:40

But I think it's certainly in contention for adapted screenplay actor, possibly picture. People talk about the cinematography and, again, he's no stranger to cinematographers. Now, I think a lot of it is really going to depend on Netflix, right. I think a lot of these films, the big idea that I, my big takeaway, is that it really a lot of it depends on the campaign, right. If focus features may be focused on DD a little bit more than Conclave, the outcome might have been different. If it wasn't Amazon behind my Old Ass, the outcome might have been different. If it wasn't Sony Classics with the outrun, it might have been different.

Joseph: 2:09:18

So I do wonder if Netflix has the ability to sort of campaign multiple movies and you know they're going to pick up movies down the line and if they're going to give this film the sort of rollout that it would need. I also wonder if you know, from what I understand the way it's photographed, if it wouldn't benefit from a large screen.

Jules: 2:09:39

Yeah, right, right, I agree with you 100%. I think this film has all the ingredients to make a big impact in terms of the acclaim, the source material, joe Edgerton, who I think a lot of people want to see nominated, awarded in some capacity. He's one of our great actors and this team was there just last year, so obviously they respond to the work to some degree, since Sing didn't get an eye for best picture, but it's still got three nominations, among them a best actor nomination and best screenplay nomination. I do wonder again if the back-to-back kind of thing is going to hurt or help.

Jules: 2:10:14

I, my gut right now tells me that it hurts that they were just there nominated for screenplay, right, and I think it does hurt that it's a net production, I mean a Netflix that Netflix acquired, uh, the the project, um, because I don't think that they're that great at, you know, uh, juggling a lot of their releases. I usually have, like one horse um, that they're kind of put all their attention to, um. That being said, you know they do pretty well in the acting categories. You know they do manage to get attention for some of their actors in the in the acting category. So I think that's going for Joel Edgerton. Like like you said, I think it would benefit from a theatrical experience based on what people are saying about the photography, and so I have questions about again, as you were saying, netflix back-to-back nominations, but it is a film that I think has all the right elements to have staying power.

Joseph: 2:11:13

Yeah, I agree. I think this is a film that could hit above the line and below the line. I would have preferred and this is again the minutiae of an Oscar season, but that's really what it comes down to had Sing Sing been released when it was supposed to be released in 2023, and they had a gap. I would like its chances better. Right, I agree.

Joseph: 2:11:35

If it wasn't consecutive nominations, I would argue that because Sing Sing was not released in 2023, it probably missed out on more nominations that it might have gotten, had it been released in 2023.

Joseph: 2:11:46

That's again another mistake, and so those are things that hopefully movies and campaigns and producers and financiers and distributors are paying attention to. You know you shouldn't wait to acquire these movies. You shouldn't wait a whole year. That that's something hopefully you learned last year through sing sing um, and we'll talk about this, because there are a bunch of movies that are going to be released late, that are from last year, that you know the sort of energy behind them has been sucked out and that's probably poor decision making. And the other thing is that I would have liked it more had this film not been Netflix and had maybe been focus features.

Joseph: 2:12:26

Had they moved from A24 to focus features. I think that would have been good. Or another boutique instead of Netflix. Like I said, I think what we've realized the last year with Netflix is that Netflix is never going to win Best Picture Unless they really really really totally recalibrate their uh structure of releasing films. It just the respect isn't there, um, so there's a chance that this is just another sort of really wonderful film that sort of gets lost on netflix. I sort of think about, you know, something like mudbound that was sort of able to muster that attention at the end, um.

Joseph: 2:13:04

Multiple actors got attention for it, the screenplay was nominated, the cinematography was nominated um. But I do think that they were able to beat the odds right mudbound, because usually it's the kind of film that would get lost and lo and behold, that year was, I think, netflix's first competitive year at the oscars. They did not get an hour for best picture, not amongst nine.

Joseph: 2:13:26

They might have, though they might have, but starting then, you know, netflix starts to have a little bit of a streak Right and so, that being said, in 2017, that was the Netflix movie they were pushing.

Jules: 2:13:38

There wasn't multiple Netflix movies and you kind of know that at some point they're going to get something flashier than Train Dreams of, know that at some point they're going to get something flashier than train dreams and they're going to give train dreams the sort of the, the, the b movie treatment unless, unless, for example, con comes through and they don't find anything that they feel has enough broad appeal for either audiences or the academy and they end up saying, well, you know, we didn't find that much at con, so we're going to put all the chips on train dreams I mean, that could happen, it could happen, it could happen.

Jules: 2:14:10

I really doubt it if it did happen, it would be a very good thing for train dreams I don't know.

Joseph: 2:14:15

I don't know that it would be a very good thing for train dreams because, like I said, I think netflix sometimes is not always a positive to have in your corner right. I really think that we're getting to a moment for Oscar voters where you have to sort of prove yourself in the market, and so when Sing Sing comes out and doesn't make much money.

Joseph: 2:14:37

I think that that's a determining factor, and maybe Train Dreams may have been able to capture an audience. I'm not sure. At least it does have that source material that probably has a good amount of fans. And maybe that would have translated to to some success at the box office Right.

Joseph: 2:14:55

But so I do think that those are the big three. If I had legs I'd kick you, kiss a spider woman and train dreams, and then I would also keep an eye out for rebuilding, rebuilding Peter Ho dreams, and then I would also, uh, keep an eye out for rebuilding um, rebuilding peter hoosier's day, um, certainly joshua connor, with the year he's gonna have um. But more importantly, on the us dramatic side again, the right campaign for omaha and the right campaign for sorry baby could really, really, really, you know, surprise you know, surprise you, right?

Jules: 2:15:28

Yeah, that was our very big dive into the Sundance Film Festival 2025. It was a pleasure to attend the festival and to be able to see the films that we saw, and again, we see a lot of potential, handled with care and in the right way for a lot of these titles to be able to compete. Yeah, let's hope that they land in the right way for a lot of these titles to be able to compete.

Joseph: 2:15:49

Yeah, um let's hope that they are land in the right hands. Yeah, they have to go to the right hands and you have to be smart about it and you have to be committed, but there's absolutely a lot of potential here all right and uh, so this concludes this episode.

Jules: 2:16:01

Um, thank you for joining us on what is episode one of our season two. We're going to be in this sort of spring summer season. We're going to be trying to have a usual time slot of Fridays so you can look for a new episode of Academy Anonymous every Friday. Perfect, mark your calendars and signing off. This is Jules and I'm Joseph, and it's been a pleasure. The music on this episode, entitled Cool Cats, was graciously provided by Kevin MacLeod and incompetechcom. Licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0. Licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0. Http//creativecommonsorg. Licenses by 3.0.

Joseph: 2:17:01

Disclaimer the Academy Anonymous podcast is in no way affiliated or endorsed by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.